[zguy]

there are still plenty of US engineers and designers that had to work on the Cruze and Fiesta though
different tuning, different regulations, different road conditions all that brings lots of small changes you wouldnt think about

[atvman]

OK, you brought up the Focus example. It wasn't designed in Europe, it was a joint effort. Fine, the base C1 platform is based on European design, but Americans worked on the change to C2 as well. Americans designed the 2.0L I4. Americans were in charge of meeting American emissions and safety regulations. Americans were in charge of final tuning for the American spec model. Americans laid out the Assembly plant. Etc, etc, etc.

[atvman]

RightWD;127807 Wrote:

atvman;127793 Wrote:@RightWD

Let me add this, it's far more involved than outsiders think it is. Here's an example, how many auto plants have you been in?

What do Ford, GM, and Chrysler plants have in common? You walk down the line and you see machines with names like Tower Automice, Cinetic, Dominion, Paslin, etc. They use Allen Bradley logic controllers and electical components. They use Parker pneumatic and hydraulic components. These are all domestic companies that employ domestic workers.

Go for a walk in a Honda or Nissan plant. You see names like NTC, Komatsu, and Sumitomo on the machines. You see Mitsubishi PLCs, Honda uses Yaskawa.

I grew up on this industry, I've worked in this industry. I am very well aware of how things work.

Again, not the point I am trying to make.

Why is my point not valid? Because you have no counter to it? This goes far, far beyond your scope of knowledge.

[The 'Burg]

The return on investment for the multi-national engineered Cruze, Focus, Mexican-built Fusion... all those monies are returned to American companies who can use the profits to reinvest, to engineer new models that may be built here or overseas. The funds go to renovating / retooling or even building new factories. American suppliers, both component suppliers for the vehicles or the tool & equipment makers who outfit the factories also benefit.

Toyota does the exact same thing, only they support Japanese companies instead.

So yeah, as long as it has a D3 badge on it, I don't care if it's a Mexican-built Fusion or a Canadian-built Camaro or Charger. Purchasing any one of those vehicles does more for our economy than buying a Kentucky-built Camry does.

[All-Or-Nothing]

RightWD;127783 Wrote:TVs alone is a multi-billion dollar industry. There are alot more people that own TVs than cars. And the people that own TVs tend to own multiple TVs. Ask Samsung how they like American sales.

EXACTLY......far more money leaves the U.S. on electronics than automobiles.

[RightWD]

atvman;127812 Wrote:OK, you brought up the Focus example. It wasn't designed in Europe, it was a joint effort. Fine, the base C1 platform is based on European design, but Americans worked on the change to C2 as well. Americans designed the 2.0L I4. Americans were in charge of meeting American emissions and safety regulations. Americans were in charge of final tuning for the American spec model. Americans laid out the Assembly plant. Etc, etc, etc.

So you are saying that a car that is engineered in an other country that a few(relative term, don't get bent out of shape) Americans worked on to bring it up to American standards is now American? What if a foreign engineered car from a foreign manufacturer has a specific American design, underwent final suspension and powertrain tuning for the US market and was assembled in an assembly plant that was laid out by Americans. Does that now make the car American?

[zguy]

All-Or-Nothing;127822 Wrote:

RightWD;127783 Wrote:TVs alone is a multi-billion dollar industry. There are alot more people that own TVs than cars. And the people that own TVs tend to own multiple TVs. Ask Samsung how they like American sales.

EXACTLY......far more money leaves the U.S. on electronics than automobiles.

no why dont we bring clothing into the mix, imagine how much leaves the us for cheap shirts and cheap shoes

[RightWD]

atvman;127814 Wrote:

RightWD;127807 Wrote:

atvman;127793 Wrote:@RightWD

Let me add this, it's far more involved than outsiders think it is. Here's an example, how many auto plants have you been in?

What do Ford, GM, and Chrysler plants have in common? You walk down the line and you see machines with names like Tower Automice, Cinetic, Dominion, Paslin, etc. They use Allen Bradley logic controllers and electical components. They use Parker pneumatic and hydraulic components. These are all domestic companies that employ domestic workers.

Go for a walk in a Honda or Nissan plant. You see names like NTC, Komatsu, and Sumitomo on the machines. You see Mitsubishi PLCs, Honda uses Yaskawa.

I grew up on this industry, I've worked in this industry. I am very well aware of how things work.

Again, not the point I am trying to make.

Why is my point not valid? Because you have no counter to it? This goes far, far beyond your scope of knowledge.

Where did I say that?

What you are others are arguing is that the sum of a vehicles parts mean nothing as long as the final assembly is done here. What I am arguing is if a car has mostly parts sourced from countries other than the US, it is not an American car.

[atvman]

RightWD;127824 Wrote:

atvman;127812 Wrote:OK, you brought up the Focus example. It wasn't designed in Europe, it was a joint effort. Fine, the base C1 platform is based on European design, but Americans worked on the change to C2 as well. Americans designed the 2.0L I4. Americans were in charge of meeting American emissions and safety regulations. Americans were in charge of final tuning for the American spec model. Americans laid out the Assembly plant. Etc, etc, etc.

So you are saying that a car that is engineered in an other country that a few(relative term, don't get bent out of shape) Americans worked on to bring it up to American standards is now American? What if a foreign engineered car from a foreign manufacturer has a specific American design, underwent final suspension and powertrain tuning for the US market and was assembled in an assembly plant that was laid out by Americans. Does that now make the car American?

I'd be surprised if there was a significantly larger number of Euro engineers working on the project than American engineers.

Design is only small portion of the whole scope, I'm still waiting for a retort to my other arguments.

[RightWD]

zguy;127826 Wrote:

All-Or-Nothing;127822 Wrote:

RightWD;127783 Wrote:TVs alone is a multi-billion dollar industry. There are alot more people that own TVs than cars. And the people that own TVs tend to own multiple TVs. Ask Samsung how they like American sales.

EXACTLY......far more money leaves the U.S. on electronics than automobiles.

no why dont we bring clothing into the mix, imagine how much leaves the us for cheap shirts and cheap shoes

The argument would be the same for that too. I wonder how many protectionists on this forum is wearing a shirt that was made in Indonesia or Malaysia or some other third world country.

[atvman]

RightWD;127833 Wrote:

zguy;127826 Wrote:

All-Or-Nothing;127822 Wrote:

RightWD;127783 Wrote:TVs alone is a multi-billion dollar industry. There are alot more people that own TVs than cars. And the people that own TVs tend to own multiple TVs. Ask Samsung how they like American sales.

EXACTLY......far more money leaves the U.S. on electronics than automobiles.

no why dont we bring clothing into the mix, imagine how much leaves the us for cheap shirts and cheap shoes

The argument would be the same for that too. I wonder how many protectionists on this forum is wearing a shirt that was made in Indonesia or Malaysia or some other third world country.

No offense, but that's a moronic argument. A Civic and a Focus are comparable and cost the same. Find me a comparable T-shirt to the one I'm wearing that was made in America and costs $15.

BTW, my NB running shoes were made in the US.

[iDream Theater]

Clothing is slightly different simply because you pretty much can't find anything made in the US anymore.

[RightWD]

atvman;127831 Wrote:

RightWD;127824 Wrote:

atvman;127812 Wrote:OK, you brought up the Focus example. It wasn't designed in Europe, it was a joint effort. Fine, the base C1 platform is based on European design, but Americans worked on the change to C2 as well. Americans designed the 2.0L I4. Americans were in charge of meeting American emissions and safety regulations. Americans were in charge of final tuning for the American spec model. Americans laid out the Assembly plant. Etc, etc, etc.

So you are saying that a car that is engineered in an other country that a few(relative term, don't get bent out of shape) Americans worked on to bring it up to American standards is now American? What if a foreign engineered car from a foreign manufacturer has a specific American design, underwent final suspension and powertrain tuning for the US market and was assembled in an assembly plant that was laid out by Americans. Does that now make the car American?

I'd be surprised if there was a significantly larger number of Euro engineers working on the project than American engineers.

Design is only small portion of the whole scope, I'm still waiting for a retort to my other arguments.

Nice deflection. Even if there was one more person working in Europe to develop the next Mondeo/Fusion, that is still one more foreign worker than American worker.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question.

[RightWD]

atvman;127836 Wrote:

RightWD;127833 Wrote:

zguy;127826 Wrote:

All-Or-Nothing;127822 Wrote:

RightWD;127783 Wrote:TVs alone is a multi-billion dollar industry. There are alot more people that own TVs than cars. And the people that own TVs tend to own multiple TVs. Ask Samsung how they like American sales.

EXACTLY......far more money leaves the U.S. on electronics than automobiles.

no why dont we bring clothing into the mix, imagine how much leaves the us for cheap shirts and cheap shoes

The argument would be the same for that too. I wonder how many protectionists on this forum is wearing a shirt that was made in Indonesia or Malaysia or some other third world country.

No offense, but that's a moronic argument. A Civic and a Focus are comparable and cost the same. Find me a comparable T-shirt to the one I'm wearing that was made in America and costs $15.

BTW, my NB running shoes were made in the US.

What's moronic is comparing a Civic or a Focus to one T-Shirt.

[zguy]

Honestly I dont care untill they call the Camry the most american car
I think it is funny how its always a Toyota that wins, probably because the criteria were balanced in toyotas favor, i could make a most american car contest and bias how i determine it to favor the focus or whatever i wanted to win