[REVolution]

AudiR8;69208 Wrote:He's a salesman - he's been trained to lie.

Dumbass comment of the year.

[lengnert]

AudiR8;69208 Wrote:He's a salesman - he's been trained to lie.

There are no bigger liars on this Earth than customers, especially ones that are of the 'handjob' variety that the 'burg spoke of earlier (and there are for more of them than there are all salesmen, good - bad or indifferent, combined).

[Speed Devil]

So brownie, how can ya call yourself a fanboy if your gonna encourage your folks to switch brands? A real Fanboy doesn't switch brands, whether it's staying with one Manufacturer (Casa) or sticking with one Brand (VW Tuners).

Trust me, I'm too interested in everything to be a fanboy, but still, how can ya call yourself a BMW fanboy and then tell your folks to switch or even consider a Borecedes?

[Brown_Pride]

Speed Devil;69185 Wrote:Wow, one bad experience and he's jumping to another brand, what a loyalist XD

Shit son, are you retarded or something, instead of acting like a little bitch about some clueless salesman, just take his damn job so you can educate the masses with your knowledge

Don't get a Benz unless you wanna be bored to sleep, get an Audi and call it a day, unless you wanan go pimpin', then I recommend a Caddy (Coupe De Vil for maximum ghettoness XD)

We're not "jumping" to another brand because of this.
As with most luxo buyers, they want to own a variety of cars in their lifetime. Audi-check. Caddy-check. Infinit-check. BMW-check.

I'll still always be a huge BMW fanboy, but I'd also like my parents to own the cars they've always wanted to. Plus, how's this boring?

[Brown_Pride]

neburg964;69180 Wrote:4) BP is funny because he's bringing up issues that I - and anybody who is a BMW purist - complain about. Yet he also said I sound like an angry old man for mentioning them. Hypocrite much, BP? I guarantee you 98% of the current 5 & 7 series buyers have no clue that older Bimmers have far more communicative steering. There may not be a "fix" for the problem because there is no problem. BMW's steering system works exactly as its supposed to. The new hardware is simply not as communicative as a pure rack-and-pinion system, so it just doesn't work the way us grumpy old men (and car magazine testers) would like. Why torture the salesman about it? He didn't build it.

Understand that if the way you have conducted yourself in this forum is in any way indicative of the way you act in person, the following perception was probably applied to you by the salesman and/or his manager:

'Burg he asked me if I had any questions and I politely asked, knowing I wouldn't get much of a response but to try it anyways. Never did I show any disrespect, besides a chuckle when he lied on my face. Like I've said before, I come to this forum to anger D3 fangirls. I'm far more mature in person and know how to communicate with professionals in a thoughtful and respectful manner.

[BasiliskSt]

BP, it's you not him. Yes you know more than the salesman. He's conditioned to answer objections. You will find as you get older that if you are an enthusiast, you will almost always know more than the salesperson. That doesn't mean you're omniciscent. It just means you've schooled yourself and sold yourself before even darkening the door of the dealership. It's one thing to be an expert on your favorite car, but the salesperson has to know something about the entire line, and frankly far more about financing then you. You weren't buying, what good did it do you to test the poor guy? Weren't you just saying that BMW tuned the new 5 to a different target demographic than you? How's that his fault? His ability to influence? Get something you like and don't afflict a poor working stiff with your attitude.

Smart and knowledgable people frequently find themselves the best informed, the smartest in the room. It rarely pays to try to make that point with people. The world does not love know-it-alls. Even when the person really does know-it-all. We pay to go to experts where we can benefit from the physician's, the lawyer's, the engineer's, the accountant's expertise, but we don't want our experts telling us they are smarter than us, only that they are more specialized or focused.

I might occassionally ask a question I know the answer to, in order to judge the quality of advice I can expect from someone. But if they are wrong or I disagree, I almost never point it out. Intellectual bullying is no better than any other kind of bullying. You're smart. You're well informed. Argue only over things that matter. Don't burden people who have no power or responsibility with blame. It's a version of a pick your battles. But it is also a matter of respect. People with less knowledge or less intellectual capacity for knowledge are still people with feelings. It won't help you or them in most circumstances to embareass them or humilitate them. It doesn't make you better. Smarter is not the only measure of a person, no more than stronger is. You have to temper intellect with compassion.

[REVolution]

To be a sales person, you don't need to know about every car in your lineup in gross detail. The cars usually sell themselves and the sales person is just someone to get you to fall in love with the car and sell the price. If you expected anything further you only fooled yourself.

[The 'Burg]

Brown_Pride;69112 Wrote:... I will say however, BMW customers are definitely more informed about cars than your average Ford or Toyota customer.

Really? And you base this tidbit of knowledge on what facts?

I have sold automobiles for many years (Mazda, Pontiac, Buick, GMC, Infiniti, and now Ford) and can tell you that without any doubt, Ford buyers are extremely well-informed about the product. Many are Ford loyalists or grew up in Ford families. I have no doubt that Chevy guys will say the same thing.

And specifically, the buyers of Mustangs and Ford Trucks (particularly the F250 & F350) are the most knowledgeable buyers I have ever encountered. When I started with Ford, the General Manager told me to really focus on Mustangs and trucks because those owners would "eat you alive" if I didn't know anything about them. In fact, I was also told to turn those customers to an experienced salesman until I had achieved my product certification.

Yes BP - those "redneck" yee-haws that you look down your brown nose at are some of the smartest, most affluent customers we have. You may think contractors and blue-collar guys are beneath you, but they are hard-working sumbitches and in many cases, extremely successful. We have a landscaping contractor who just bought three fully-loaded F350 Lariat SuperCrew Diesels for himself and his two foremen. $180,000 worth of trucks - and he paid cash for them, simply off the money he made this past snow season. We have another guy who owns an F250, a Mustang GT500, is probably going to buy one of the Boss 302's, and has a Raptor on order. Dude is a retired NYC cop who also owns a vending machine route in Manhattan. He works 3 days a week, doesn't shave if he doesn't feel like it, and wears old raggy jeans while driving his Econoline into the city to collect his cash and restock the machines. I'd bet if you saw him, you wouldn't give him the time of day - but he is incredibly successful financially, and he gets to spend 4 days a week doing whatever he wants.

I could go on and on but why? You make such derisive statements about people you know nothing about and are so quick to stereotype others -and in doing so you perpetuate the stereotype about the type of person a BMW driver is (i.e., "materialistic douchebags"). It seems like you are all about the cover of the book, with little regard for its contents. You see a BMW driver and automatically assume they are successful, but pickup truck drivers or muscle car owners must live in trailers and sleep with their sisters.

Now I know you are young and can change your ways, and I sincerely hope you do. You've made a few posts here and there that prove you have intelligence and maturity. Why not let those traits out instead?

[Scout]

RevitHigh;69276 Wrote:To be a sales person, you don't need to know about every car in your lineup in gross detail. The cars usually sell themselves and the sales person is just someone to get you to fall in love with the car and sell the price. If you expected anything further you only fooled yourself.

That may be true, but when a salesperson is asked something they don't know a good response is I don't know. That will fly far better than making something up, which has happened to me. There are tons of good salesmen. But on that note there are also tons of salesmen that are the epitome of why car salesmen have a bad name. The trouble is that a bad salesmen can hurt the dealer/brand that they are pushing cars for.

[REVolution]

Scout;69285 Wrote:

RevitHigh;69276 Wrote:To be a sales person, you don't need to know about every car in your lineup in gross detail. The cars usually sell themselves and the sales person is just someone to get you to fall in love with the car and sell the price. If you expected anything further you only fooled yourself.

That may be true, but when a salesperson is asked something they don't know a good response is I don't know. That will fly far better than making something up, which has happened to me. There are tons of good salesmen. But on that note there are also tons of salesmen that are the epitome of why car salesmen have a bad name. The trouble is that a bad salesmen can hurt the dealer/brand that they are pushing cars for.

I agree with you, Scout. I doubt the typical customer for a BMW, Benz don't care as much about steering feel and light weight as BP did. Hell I know my parents didn't give a damn when they test drove them as well as many of the customers in the luxury segment. A lot of it has to do with the name.

[bojangles beast]

Wow, Neburg owned you BP. BTW here's a fast fact BP,never talk trash about car salesmen in a forum full of them. You will always get owned.

[nell_z]

Not sure Burg asked for a frontman....

[Brown_Pride]

neburg964;69282 Wrote:

Brown_Pride;69112 Wrote:... I will say however, BMW customers are definitely more informed about cars than your average Ford or Toyota customer.

Really? And you base this tidbit of knowledge on what facts?

I have sold automobiles for many years (Mazda, Pontiac, Buick, GMC, Infiniti, and now Ford) and can tell you that without any doubt, Ford buyers are extremely well-informed about the product. Many are Ford loyalists or grew up in Ford families. I have no doubt that Chevy guys will say the same thing.

And specifically, the buyers of Mustangs and Ford Trucks (particularly the F250 & F350) are the most knowledgeable buyers I have ever encountered. When I started with Ford, the General Manager told me to really focus on Mustangs and trucks because those owners would "eat you alive" if I didn't know anything about them. In fact, I was also told to turn those customers to an experienced salesman until I had achieved my product certification.

Yes BP - those "redneck" yee-haws that you look down your brown nose at are some of the smartest, most affluent customers we have. You may think contractors and blue-collar guys are beneath you, but they are hard-working sumbitches and in many cases, extremely successful. We have a landscaping contractor who just bought three fully-loaded F350 Lariat SuperCrew Diesels for himself and his two foremen. $180,000 worth of trucks - and he paid cash for them, simply off the money he made this past snow season. We have another guy who owns an F250, a Mustang GT500, is probably going to buy one of the Boss 302's, and has a Raptor on order. Dude is a retired NYC cop who also owns a vending machine route in Manhattan. He works 3 days a week, doesn't shave if he doesn't feel like it, and wears old raggy jeans while driving his Econoline into the city to collect his cash and restock the machines. I'd bet if you saw him, you wouldn't give him the time of day - but he is incredibly successful financially, and he gets to spend 4 days a week doing whatever he wants.

I could go on and on but why? You make such derisive statements about people you know nothing about and are so quick to stereotype others -and in doing so you perpetuate the stereotype about the type of person a BMW driver is (i.e., "materialistic douchebags"). It seems like you are all about the cover of the book, with little regard for its contents. You see a BMW driver and automatically assume they are successful, but pickup truck drivers or muscle car owners must live in trailers and sleep with their sisters.

Now I know you are young and can change your ways, and I sincerely hope you do. You've made a few posts here and there that prove you have intelligence and maturity. Why not let those traits out instead?

Neburg you need to chill out.
I'm not stereotyping all salesman as I have met good and bad ones in every dealer I've been to. I was just very angry yesterday and needed to get this experience off of my chest instead of keeping it to myself.
I didn't bother reading every thing you wrote, because frankly, you are overanalyzing things. You have no idea how I am in real life outside of these forums, so don't make generalizations about me. Same thing applies to me in regard to you and others, so just keep it cool.
The salesguy didn't know his stuff and just lied to my face, plain and simple. Is there any disputing that? I didn't go and try to annoy him, test him, or provoke him. He asked me if I had any questions and I nicely asked a question that's been on my mind for quite some time now. That's all there was to it.
I'm contemplating whether to call the manager back and complain or just leave it at that.
We'll see.

[Brown_Pride]

BasiliskSt;69272 Wrote:BP, it's you not him. Yes you know more than the salesman. He's conditioned to answer objections. You will find as you get older that if you are an enthusiast, you will almost always know more than the salesperson. That doesn't mean you're omniciscent. It just means you've schooled yourself and sold yourself before even darkening the door of the dealership. It's one thing to be an expert on your favorite car, but the salesperson has to know something about the entire line, and frankly far more about financing then you. You weren't buying, what good did it do you to test the poor guy? Weren't you just saying that BMW tuned the new 5 to a different target demographic than you? How's that his fault? His ability to influence? Get something you like and don't afflict a poor working stiff with your attitude.

Smart and knowledgable people frequently find themselves the best informed, the smartest in the room. It rarely pays to try to make that point with people. The world does not love know-it-alls. Even when the person really does know-it-all. We pay to go to experts where we can benefit from the physician's, the lawyer's, the engineer's, the accountant's expertise, but we don't want our experts telling us they are smarter than us, only that they are more specialized or focused.

I might occassionally ask a question I know the answer to, in order to judge the quality of advice I can expect from someone. But if they are wrong or I disagree, I almost never point it out. Intellectual bullying is no better than any other kind of bullying. You're smart. You're well informed. Argue only over things that matter. Don't burden people who have no power or responsibility with blame. It's a version of a pick your battles. But it is also a matter of respect. People with less knowledge or less intellectual capacity for knowledge are still people with feelings. It won't help you or them in most circumstances to embareass them or humilitate them. It doesn't make you better. Smarter is not the only measure of a person, no more than stronger is. You have to temper intellect with compassion.

Thanks for the advice Basilisk you make some very good points. But in no way shape or form was I trying to argue with him or test his knowledge. I was more so just trying to see if the company has informed dealers on whether there will be a fix for such a common complaint.

Nevertheless I will keep this all in mind.

[BasiliskSt]

Brown_Pride;69302 Wrote:Thanks for the advice Basilisk you make some very good points. But in no way shape or form was I trying to argue with him or test his knowledge. I was more so just trying to see if the company has informed dealers on whether there will be a fix for such a common complaint.

Nevertheless I will keep this all in mind.

That was a mature response. I'm sincerely impressed. I'd say it's not worth complaining to the dealer, to the extent you really want BMW to change the 5, find someone with influence to which to provide feedback. Share your view that BMW should take the negative reviews seriously and respond because it runs counter to the core brand identity as "the ultimate driving machine." Figure out the BMW hierarchy at least in the US and write, call or arrange a meeting. Do it respectfully, from the viewpoint of wanting to help BMW be more successful. Always consider the audience and persuade from the listener's viewpoint. You could have some fun with that.

There are cultural differences in the United States compared to India. I have several friends from MBA school and business who are originally from India, and they've told me about how they've had to adapt. My maternal Grandfather was an English Army officer and later business person in India between the World Wars, so I have some affinity for Indian culture and cuisine. There is a time and place to display your brilliance -- and I have no doubt you're smart and come from a family that encourages excellence. Just pick your battles. It's fine to argue amongst friends like here on the boards. (Where's the fun in having friends with whom you always agree?) But be careful when it isn't in sport with friends or necessary in business. I can get up on my high horse on occasion, but I normally regret it when I get too prickly. It almost always works better when you change the approach to persuasion rather berating or complaining.