[bluestinger66]

McLovin;222361 Wrote:Me, I would be happy with just a regular 48 mpg (46 avg) Fusion hybrid.
All for under $28K.

Funny you say that.In the article I mentioned the "local with a Focus Titanium" that we followed to the parking garage where the majority of the photos were taken. He had looked into buying a hybrid or electric car when he was shopping for his latest purchase. He had looked at the Volt, but the sticker was 45K for the one he had looked at and he couldn't spend that much. He was interested in the Focus Electric, but it hadn't been released yet. Plus at the pricepoint, he said he would rather get an MKZ hybrid, but ultimately went with the Titanium because he would realize much of the efficiency with near luxury trim at a price of about 28k. Thats what he paid for the loaded Titanium.
I didnt go into it in the narrative because it was about the drive not the buy

[RougeRiver]

McLovin;222361 Wrote:Clearly the best EV available.
And sorry dolt, if there are two powertrains (sans the coupling discussion), it is a hybrid, or PHEV…not an EV.
And if PHEV’s are the topic, the Fusion PHEV energy is the winner in every possible way, from MPGe to range, to whatever you measure…….especially looks.

Me, I would be happy with just a regular 48 mpg (46 avg) Fusion hybrid.
All for under $28K.

Another argument you might want to make is that 45 mpg average is the point where burning gasoline matches using the USA grid with respect to C02 emissions.

So you could argue that the Fusion hybrid matches the Volt for C02 emission when the Volt is "pure electric" and beats it when it is operating as a hybrid (37mpg average).

I like the Volt but hope that the drones who automatically assume Toyota is the "be all and end all" of hybrids realize what Ford has done.

[McLovin]

I still think that Ford is on the right track by making their hybrids and EV’s blend in with ICE versions.
As prices come down, and they have, people can simply make the choice, instead of having to decide if they need to make a statement or not.
That Fusion hybrid above is a stunningly good looking car at $28K, regardless of what powers it. Which hybrid from Toyota is attractive again, cuz I can’t recall any. And volt is a fine vehicle, but again, you are forcing the customer to make a choice, albeit slightly less radical.

And again, for me, it comes down to value.
No EV, not even the $40K Focus BEV, gives you the best value. But for some, it is not always ONLY about value, hence the choices.

[RougeRiver]

I like the approach taken by Ford. I have been outspoken about that fact that hybrids are a powertrain option. What the Prius really amounts to is a platform and design dedicated to fuel efficiency that disregards styling and handling, and happens to have a hybrid powertrain. I think the Prius would get a top rating in fuel economy, if it has a sole gasoline engine without any hybrid components.

Ford needs to put out advertisements that kind of mock the "I have to have something that 'looks' green to prove I'm green" image that the Prius goes after.

The Volt shows that GM still has work to do. Why, for the love of God, does this thing force only one choice when it has a powertrain that appears eminently modular. Hell, I would buy one that had no EV mode and just ran as a series hybrid. Why? Because I want to drive a vehicle with E-drive as the primary torque provider. The option I would want would also cost less in that about 60% of the battery pack (maybe more) could be dropped in lieu of a full backseat. Can I buy what I want? No.
Do I like the Volt? Yes, but my townhome does not enable charging it up so no option equals no sale.

With Ford I have options. The C-Max comes with options for PHEV or HEV.

Ford has one plant in North America putting out its primary C segment products with the most diverse powertrain options in the industry.

GM has one body option of the Cruze going out of Lordstown and the "Cruze based" Volt going out the door at Poletown. Lordstown is huge and in a very wide open area that could easily have been reconfigured to something like Michigan Assembly.

Not good.

[McLovin]

^
There is no doubt that Ford has the better electrification plan at the moment, product aside.
Focus plant turn it's manufacturing might on a dime to provide more BEV if needed, or just scale back.
Also, there is no "failure" that can plague a product like the Focus BEV, because it is more of a powertrain option.

GM will be doing the same eventually.

[ncguy]

This car is definitely getting off to a slow start... I knew it would be bad due to the price but worse than expected.

Quote:Tiny sales of a touted green car
Ford sold 16,454 Focuses in the U.S. in July, more than a quarter of the Blue Oval's total U.S. car sales during the month. But the all-electric Focus Electric, the Ford answer to Nissan's (NASDAQOTH: NSANY.PK) Leaf that the Blue Oval announced with much fanfare in late 2010 and rolled out last winter, accounted for nearly none of that total.

Ford sold just 38 of the electric Focuses in July, down by more than half from the whopping 89 it sold in June. Sales have been trivial since the battery-powered car's debut: Ford has sold just 135 of the electric cars so far in 2012

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/20...Bx34_aPWcw

[McLovin]

ncguy;223267 Wrote:This car is definitely getting off to a slow start... I knew it would be bad due to the price but worse than expected.

Quote:Tiny sales of a touted green car
Ford sold 16,454 Focuses in the U.S. in July, more than a quarter of the Blue Oval's total U.S. car sales during the month. But the all-electric Focus Electric, the Ford answer to Nissan's (NASDAQOTH: NSANY.PK) Leaf that the Blue Oval announced with much fanfare in late 2010 and rolled out last winter, accounted for nearly none of that total.

Ford sold just 38 of the electric Focuses in July, down by more than half from the whopping 89 it sold in June. Sales have been trivial since the battery-powered car's debut: Ford has sold just 135 of the electric cars so far in 2012

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/20...Bx34_aPWcw

Just now hitting the market, effin douche.

[ncguy]

Quote:The car often mentioned in the same breath as the leaf, General Motors' (NYSE: GM  ) Chevy Volt, has had a much better time, with more than 10,000 sold to date.

[bluestinger66]

ncguy;223267 Wrote:This car is definitely getting off to a slow start... I knew it would be bad due to the price but worse than expected.

Quote:Tiny sales of a touted green car
Ford sold 16,454 Focuses in the U.S. in July, more than a quarter of the Blue Oval's total U.S. car sales during the month. But the all-electric Focus Electric, the Ford answer to Nissan's (NASDAQOTH: NSANY.PK) Leaf that the Blue Oval announced with much fanfare in late 2010 and rolled out last winter, accounted for nearly none of that total.

Ford sold just 38 of the electric Focuses in July, down by more than half from the whopping 89 it sold in June. Sales have been trivial since the battery-powered car's debut: Ford has sold just 135 of the electric cars so far in 2012

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/20...Bx34_aPWcw

Ford's press contact said that the Focus Electric had been released to the public only ten days prior to my driving it. Maybe that was only New York.

[McLovin]

ncguy;223273 Wrote:

Quote:The car often mentioned in the same breath as the leaf, General Motors' (NYSE: GM  ) Chevy Volt, has had a much better time, with more than 10,000 sold to date.

Really? How many years on the market, what was total investment, and how soon will it be before they actually profit from a volt sale.

Indeed, ford does have the better plan.....chumlvr.

[ncguy]

My point being - when the Volt was released people laughed their asses off due to low sales (which correct me if I'm wrong - was NEVER this bad) but now I can hear the fanboys saying... It's new, it's just been released etc etc etc. I believe this goes to show what I said is true - No ones going to buy a $40,000 Fuckus when there's one sitting right beside it for $20,000... Especially after 75 miles its Found On Road Dead

[BasiliskSt]

I expect the Ford Energi PHEVs and standard hybrids will continue to do well. I think Ford's pricing is designed to cover costs while learning. They aren't cheap, but they (like the Volt) feel like fully baked cars that give up little for their novel parts. The pure EV Focus will have an audience. It looks miles better than a LEAF. The hybrid variants of the Focus (including C-Max) beat the Prius family all to heck in refinement and driving dynamics. I don't mind Prius styling but they drive like tractors. Lots of drive line noise and whine and terrible suspension and steering compared to even normal Toyotas.

I'm frankly thinking a Fusion Energi PHEV looks like an awfully good all around car. (Or the MKZ variant.)

[McLovin]

There is a market for pure EV, and I expect Focus to sell in similar numbers to Leaf.
Nothing wrong with that at all, especially considering the capital invested, which is a drop in the bucket compared to volt.
Volt needs to sell in much larger numbers than they are, just to recover costs.

[zguy]

I still think the pure ev has a long way tobgo before its even an option for 90% of americans. With this with 70 some miles of range getting to work and back would be a stressful drive with only a little bit of juice between making it or ending up walking home. And if i wanted to go anywhere after work, i would have to wait a few hours for the battery to charge.
My cars low fuel light comes on and i can make it 60 miles before running dry, so to me an ev would be like running on low fuel even with full charge.
Thats why I feel like for the next 10 years the volt will be the best option, the bext generation going futher on a charge and getting better fuel economy in hybrid mode the best of both worlds

[McLovin]

zguy;223336 Wrote:I still think the pure ev has a long way tobgo before its even an option for 90% of americans. With this with 70 some miles of range getting to work and back would be a stressful drive with only a little bit of juice between making it or ending up walking home. And if i wanted to go anywhere after work, i would have to wait a few hours for the battery to charge.
My cars low fuel light comes on and i can make it 60 miles before running dry, so to me an ev would be like running on low fuel even with full charge.
Thats why I feel like for the next 10 years the volt will be the best option, the bext generation going futher on a charge and getting better fuel economy in hybrid mode the best of both worlds

Have we not learned anything, dwelling in auto forums????
A BEV will not typically be used as a daily commuter, but other purposes, which are plenty. And most who will buy one, will park it alongside at least several other vehicles. So long distance travel is already accounted for.


And volt is not the best option, not even close.
There will soon be plenty of PHEV's that will best the volt in every way, let alone in 10 years.

Let me point you to one of them, from a company with far more hybrid experience....