[Speed Devil]

CTS-Vluvr;215080 Wrote:

nell_z;215071 Wrote:

CTS-Vluvr;215047 Wrote:

nell_z;215043 Wrote:

CTS-Vluvr;215038 Wrote:

Brown_Pride;215032 Wrote:

CTS-Vluvr;215027 Wrote:Well, there went any respect I had for BMW.

Please explain why. BMW and Toyota are the two most respected and successful automakers in the world today. If you think Toyota has nothing to offer to BMW then you are mistaken. We have seen what a Toyota partnership with a performance brand such as Subaru can entail (BRZ/FR-S)

STFU. I don't like Toyota. That's why. I have had the displeasure of trading two weeks of my driving life to drive 2 different Toyota's and they were as I expected: lame, half baked, cheap, over-hyped p.o.s. Toyota's are for people with diminished expectations of what an automobile is. Toyota's are for people who live by what CR says. Toyota's are for people like you who don't know shit about cars. BMW, until now, stood apart from Toyota. BMW and Toyota should be like oil and water: they shouldn't mix.

Not to act as the fuel for the fire, but the only vehicles GM produces that are actually everything you don't like happens to have a sticker above $40k. You drove 2 Toyota vehicles under $30k, both of which serve purposes you wouldn't care to understand. The rest of GM, ESPECIALLY Chevy, is just as bad, if not worse, than Toyota. GM has 2 4-cylinder Impala's for gods sake, one of which is a 'hybrid', with its basic structure having been produced a decade ago.

You are correct, I don't care to understand shitty cars for shitty people.:WINK:

What makes them shitty? You had enough luck in life to get a CTS-V, so now you consider them shitty? So what were you before you could afford your CTS-V?? Hmmmmm...:WINK:

I take it you've never driven either the Prius c or FR-S? I would describe both as merely adequate. I don't settle for merely adequate in my life in any aspect. Yes, before I started making cash I had to settle for merely adequate. BMW does not stand for merely adequate, Toyota does. Get it?:WINK:

I got it

Only difference is that the Twins have the aftermarket behind them

[nell_z]

Admittedly, no, I've driven neither. But every company has its ups amd downs, just like GM. So in that case, like Toyota, GM is merely adequate.:WINK:

[MOPAR74]

Im with CTS-Vluvr on this one


I dont like the mixing of BMW with Toyota, yes they will probably sell.... but that doesnt mean it ill be good

[The 'Burg]

So the Ultimate Marketing Machine has joined forces with the Ultimate Mass-Marketing Machine. That's really it in a nutshell. Once BMW moved away from their hard-core values and took the softer "appeal to the mass-market" approach their sales skyrocketed. And they want more... so they cozied up to the #1 mass-marketing expert in the automotive field.

Meanwhile, Akio has promised that he would move Toyota back toward the sporting heritage it once had. And now he's found a willing partner with "some" experience in that field...

Both companies will no doubt benefit from this move, but Toyota can only improve its image - whereas BMW, in my opinion, is diluting their heritage in their relentless pursuit of profits.

Hmmm... The relentless pursuit of profit. Seems like BMW is learning quickly. :sad:

Oh well... at least I had the pleasure of knowing and owning BMW's back when they really were the Ultimate Driving Machine.

[LovemyPathfinder]

The 'Burg;215166 Wrote:So the Ultimate Marketing Machine has joined forces with the Ultimate Mass-Marketing Machine. That's really it in a nutshell. Once BMW moved away from their hard-core values and took the softer "appeal to the mass-market" approach their sales skyrocketed. And they want more... so they cozied up to the #1 mass-marketing expert in the automotive field.

Meanwhile, Akio has promised that he would move Toyota back toward the sporting heritage it once had. And now he's found a willing partner with "some" experience in that field...

Both companies will no doubt benefit from this move, but Toyota can only improve its image - whereas BMW, in my opinion, is diluting their heritage in their relentless pursuit of profits.

Hmmm... The relentless pursuit of profit. Seems like BMW is learning quickly. :sad:

Oh well... at least I had the pleasure of knowing and owning BMW's back when they really were the Ultimate Driving Machine.

+10

[REVolution]

Is it unfortunate that the only car that BMW makes currently that I want is the M3 GTS? BMW and Porsche used to be my favorite cars, Porsche still is. I always wanted to own a 540i alongside a 911 Turbo. Its unfortunate that I have to look at 12 year old or older BMWs to get me excited.

[Brown_Pride]

The 'Burg;215166 Wrote:So the Ultimate Marketing Machine has joined forces with the Ultimate Mass-Marketing Machine. That's really it in a nutshell. Once BMW moved away from their hard-core values and took the softer "appeal to the mass-market" approach their sales skyrocketed. And they want more... so they cozied up to the #1 mass-marketing expert in the automotive field.

Meanwhile, Akio has promised that he would move Toyota back toward the sporting heritage it once had. And now he's found a willing partner with "some" experience in that field...

Both companies will no doubt benefit from this move, but Toyota can only improve its image - whereas BMW, in my opinion, is diluting their heritage in their relentless pursuit of profits.

Hmmm... The relentless pursuit of profit. Seems like BMW is learning quickly. :sad:

Oh well... at least I had the pleasure of knowing and owning BMW's back when they really were the Ultimate Driving Machine.

I'd say that in the last decade, fuel economy standards and new global markets have played a role in BMWs getting "softer" as of late. BMW does not have VW looking over their shoulder like Audi does, they are independent. In order to remain independent, they have to sell more cars. In order to sell more cars, they must have a broader appeal. These are the first-generation EPS systems to hit the market as well, and Porsche has not fared very well either in recent reviews in terms of steering feel. My point is that there are many external factors that have contributed to BMWs not living up to your expectations, not solely internal.

Nevertheless I view them as some of the best all-around vehicles in the world that possess everything their clientele demand. The entire industry has moved towards producing safer, heavier, more technology-laden, broader-appealing vehicles, with EPS setups, not just BMW.

With all this being said, I do hope that in the next round of BMWs they will regress towards some of the driving characteristics they possessed earlier. It doesn't seem extremely likely however given how aggressive Audi has been.

[Speed Devil]

One thing I'll say though, is that it's Akio whose running the show and while they got the Dish Washers and bath tubs and fridges, he's brought some pimptastic cars to the table, like the toyabaru (Tuner), a better GS, and LFA, not to mention the prototypes running around the ring (Even if they are hybrids, I'll give him credit on the fact it's something somewhat new) and then ya got those Lexus Coupes

Maybe he'll give BMW a much needed kick in the balls to help them wake up, ya know

[jaybird]

Brown_Pride;215032 Wrote:

CTS-Vluvr;215027 Wrote:Well, there went any respect I had for BMW.

Please explain why. BMW and Toyota are the two most respected and successful automakers in the world today. If you think Toyota has nothing to offer to BMW then you are mistaken. We have seen what a Toyota partnership with a performance brand such as Subaru can entail (BRZ/FR-S)

These partnerships typically produce lame cars. Do you remember the Sterling?

They also point out that one company does not have the resources/capital to produce the desired car so they hook up with another OEM they think can produce what they need. In this case, it's toyota showing once again that they are weak. Let me put it to you in another way, toyota is catching and BMW is pitching.

Last of all in terms of the brz/fr-s, toyota didn't do shit!

[Speed Devil]

jaybird Wrote:in terms of the brz/fr-s, toyota didn't do shit!

But they benefit anyway

[jaybird]

Speed Devil;215534 Wrote:

jaybird Wrote:in terms of the brz/fr-s, toyota didn't do shit!

But they benefit anyway

Do they? Let's see which car ends up selling more. In addition, the margins on selling a re-badged car are not as good as if you produce it yourself.

But that's just my thoughts and knowledge. Why do you think are the short and long run benefits for toyota to selling a re-badge from a competing OEM?

[jaybird]

Anyone here besides Burg, remember the amazing BMW M1 which was a JV between BMW and Lamborghini?

Yea, didn't work out the way either companies thought.

[All-Or-Nothing]

CTS-Vluvr;215027 Wrote:Well, there went any respect I had for BMW.

Shhhhhhhhhh everyone.


Don't tell CTS-Vluvr but GM is STILL in talks with Toyota.

[Speed Devil]

jaybird;215536 Wrote:Anyone here besides Burg, remember the amazing BMW M1 which was a JV between BMW and Lamborghini?

Yea, didn't work out the way either companies thought.

I love that car! Gonna have BMW make me one when I'm older, a 1 off with stick and a V12

Times were tough then, maybe it'll get better next time they try some shit like that

[The 'Burg]

jaybird;215536 Wrote:Anyone here besides Burg, remember the amazing BMW M1 which was a JV between BMW and Lamborghini?

Yea, didn't work out the way either companies thought.

Yeah... true! A great concept and the world's first supercar that you could live with on a daily basis. Too bad Lamborghini had trouble staying alive on a daily basis...

Here's another JV clusterfuck - the Alfa Romeo / Nissan ARNA:



That one didn't work out too well either.