[Dequindre]

I think Cadillac needs a three-row wagon/crossover before they need a tiny CUV. The Escalade is too expensive for most people, and the current SRX doesn't have a third row. Something like the last generation SRX would be good.

[Cmicasa the GreatXvX]

RoTiCaFo;167211 Wrote: Comparing prestige and awe of a Cadillac to an Audi...

I kno right.. Cadillac fuckin KILLS Audi.. even with a limited line-up.

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Dequindre;167217 Wrote:I think Cadillac needs a three-row wagon/crossover before they need a tiny CUV. The Escalade is too expensive for most people, and the current SRX doesn't have a third row. Something like the last generation SRX would be good.

One is on the way via the Lambda platform.

[Cmicasa the GreatXvX]

RoTiCaFo;167213 Wrote:The XTS'i terror is no more impressive than the current CTS. It's bigger, has some more features etc and the plastic used are newer and better than the okay ones around the radio etc in the CTS.

The design is great, it's well laid out and the seats are wide and comfortable. With all that said, it's still not an S Class, A8, XJ, 7 series competitor.

And U kno this HOW??? My original point was that U are speculating from an ignorant point of view.

Dude U talk more idiotic shit than a limp jerk lawyer. And we all kno that each and everyone of those pieces of shit deserve a shotgun blast straight to the face.

[RoTiCaFo]

Cmicasa the Great XvX;167216 Wrote:

RoTiCaFo;167208 Wrote:Guess you didn't read my comment above, 0-60 means nothing but the owners of these cars do care about how they perform on a freeway etc.

The peole I know who drive big luxo barges all relish the fact that it is still a fast car, and faster than most of what is out there being driven by others.

You're absolutely correct about what people will buy and what they won't, there is a reason Cadillac has been shuffeling their cars around here and there and haven't been able to find a consistent vehicle other than the CTS and Escalade.

Nobody bought the STS because it was a terrible car as a complete package, it road nice and had some power but it was bland, cheap, and had an interior GM of the 90s would be proud of. Now it's dead.

People bought the DTS, the problem was those that did were dying of old age. It and many of its buyers are now dead.

Nobody bought the original SRX, it was ugly, overpriced, and until the very end also had a shit interior. Now it's dead because peole don't buy inferior products long.

Nobody bought the XLR, it was cool looking, had an awesome roof, and was just generally cool. However Cadillac couldn't sell a car at its price point and no SL buyers were going to take a second look. The interior was also a joke for the asking price. The V was even a bigger flop. Nobody buys shit and so the XLR is also dead.

Maybe the XTS will be a great car, to be honest I hope it is for Cadillac's sake. I'd also like to be able to, at some point, walk back into a Cadillac dealer and feel like I wasn't settling for less. I can't do that right now, unless I'm looking at a car thats worth $40k which isn't what I'm interested in at this point.

Cadillac could do big things if they acted the part.

Cadillac completely goes against the status quo "European" performance sedan with an American interpretation of luxury. It pays off in spades. The only thing that the Europeans have in terms of advantage over the CTS-V, for instance is the fact that it was implemented during the era of "Old GM" in a heap of $30 Billion in debt. The "New" GM has about $4 Billion in debt, a positive credit rating, $40 Billion in cash reserves, and most importantly... a new focus on exceeding the competition with excellent product.

It's like people who find issue with everything they do, then completely neglect what the foreign makers do afterwards. The "Bling Truck" comments come to mind because the are so hypocritical. The Escalade may have bling, but it's nearest competitor from Europe is the Ultra-Blinged out Range Rover. Audi went so far as line trace their cars/cuvs in chrome, then top them off with LED lights swirls in the tradition of the childhood game, Lite-Brite. Now Benz is doing the same. As is LR, and VW, and... Kia.


Your comment on the old SRX was correct to a degree. Plenty of RWD SRXs sat on the lots, trickling in minuscule sales. Car and Driver constantly praised it. Cadillac revised the interior and made the much more attractive "Sport", and yet it still sat on lots, RWD, V8 and all. The new one sells soon as they get on the lot. Dropping Cadillac's age demographic, and upping it's affluence value.

The XLR sold decent for an $86K-100K car. It fell because GM, like in the STS's case failed to properly update the vehicle until it was too late. The interior was made of quality materials, but the design was to avant-garde. It was, in fact, to polarizing. Sales wise it performed as follows:

2003 875 (first year, limited production)
2004 3,665
2005 3,730
2006 3,203
2007 1,750
2008 1,250
2009 987 (last year, limited production)

I'm sorry Casa but Cadillac is not on an even footing with the Europeans or Lexus. They just simply aren't.

Good cars sell, great cars sell well.

Cadillacs sell in the United States because we as Americans like them, I like them I mean hell I owned one prior to my current car. To an American a Cadillac is something special. If you take that nostalgia for the name away, like in Europe the car is seen for what it really is, average. Some would say "cheap". There is some truth to that casa.

Take for example my 08 CTS, the dash was awesome, the wood was nice, the steering wheel felt expensive. However, the reading light switches were super cheap and moved when you pushed them, the switchgear was the same as any GMC or Chevy, the HVAC buttons were cheap, the sunroof creaked and the light shade moved if the window was open. Still, the car drove amazingly, it was quick, road well, handled even better but those cheap parts and willingness to cut corners here or there are what separate a good, or average car, from a great car.

There is part of my frustration with Cadillac, the CTS is 98% of the way towards being a car that there really is no arguing about. For the kind of price tag my CTS carried it was a good car. The XTS is going to be more expensive and it isn't any better on the whole. Take for example your old STS, that car could have been great but it had that terrible dash material half way down the dash board, it had that horrible plastic waterfall beneath the Nav system. Take that out and the platform was superb, the NorthStar was superb, even the 5 speed was excellent, the suspension was über advanced and the list goes on. The problem was much of what surrounded the driver was substandard. So 5 series buyers, Benz, Lexus and the like all went out, took a look and went right back to wherever it was they came from. Swing and a miss.

The best thing that can happen to any person as an auto enthusiasts is for Cadillac to get their head screwed on straight and really compete. I'd buy a Cadillac over anymore other brand if I felt I didn't have to compromise a damn thing. You're telling me that I'm not and that Cadillac s doing well, then again you bought an STS and thought it was as good, if not better than the Euroes, it wasn't and that's why its dead. Don't get me wrong, the STS WAS a good car but it wasn't there and as long as fanboys continue to talk about how wonderful cars are that aren't quite there yet then Cadillac will continue to sell them to you and those of us who want to walk between the Benz and the Caddy dealer won't be able to do so unless we lost our jobs and have to trade down.

This all coming from a real Cadillac fan, whose family has owned more Cadillac than I count and owned one himself.

[RoTiCaFo]

Cmicasa the Great XvX;167222 Wrote:

RoTiCaFo;167213 Wrote:The XTS'i terror is no more impressive than the current CTS. It's bigger, has some more features etc and the plastic used are newer and better than the okay ones around the radio etc in the CTS.

The design is great, it's well laid out and the seats are wide and comfortable. With all that said, it's still not an S Class, A8, XJ, 7 series competitor.

And U kno this HOW??? My original point was that U are speculating from an ignorant point of view.

Dude U talk more idiotic shit than a limp jerk lawyer. And we all kno that each and everyone of those pieces of shit deserve a shotgun blast straight to the face.

Classy! BTW it's spelled "you", "u" is just a letter dumbfuck. does not approve.

[Cmicasa the GreatXvX]

RoTiCaFo;167229 Wrote:

Cmicasa the Great XvX;167222 Wrote:And U kno this HOW??? My original point was that U are speculating from an ignorant point of view.

Dude U talk more idiotic shit than a limp jerk lawyer. And we all kno that each and everyone of those pieces of shit deserve a shotgun blast straight to the face.

Classy! BTW it's spelled "you", "u" is just a letter dumbfuck. does not approve.

LOL!!! Is this twist sensitive about Lawyers or something??? If U are a lawyer... even more fitting.:ifyousayso:

OH... and it's spelled the way I spell it biatch.

[RoTiCaFo]

You know, if you weren't such a foul mouthed, whiney little biatch you could hide your insecurities better. :2thumbsup:

[Ix3understeer]

Hopefully they don't botch the release on this like they did with the SRX, that turbo engine was a bit of a slip-up.

[Cmicasa the GreatXvX]

RoTiCaFo;167227 Wrote:I'm sorry Casa but Cadillac is not on an even footing with the Europeans or Lexus. They just simply aren't.

Good cars sell, great cars sell well.

U live in a land of falsities and like many Americans have seemingly forgot... Perceptions ran rampant almost without ever causing one to look at the situation from a logical, self-informed point of view. Perceptions such as:

1) OHC is better than OHV, for instance, because OHC produces more power with less volume.

Many who say this never stop to see that OHC engines are also, generally, heavier, and in reality larger than the OHV engine. They are also very often less efficient, and more costly to repair. Think LS3 vs NorthStar for our GM purposes

2) In the 70s and 80s Japanese cars were more efficient. Thus the Japanese cars were better engineered

Of course they were more efficient, but the engineering wasn't better . They were smaller. Most Americans loved big cars back then, thus the Big 3 continued making a majority of their cars large.

3) Japanese cars are more reliable

All I will say is Toyota, Nissan, Honda, over the last 3 years proved that to be hogwash.

4) European cars are better engineered and better performers.

Completely false in the modern age. To me better engineered means that the car works when I want it to. I don't have to spend countless hours getting it serviced. I don't days in Loaner cars. I don't have to have Roadside Assist in my speed dial directory.

Performance wise Cadillac and Corvette have shown the Europeans, both from Germany and Italy that performance doesn't have to sacrifice drive time with breaking down constantly, or $2500 tune-ups.

I bet there are idiots on this very board who think that paying $3000 for a Tune-up and oil change in a Ferrari is laudable and cause for pats on the back. I say it's absurd considering a ZR1 will not only obliterate most Ferraris and costs $2500 less to tune/lube.

Quote:Cadillacs sell in the United States because we as Americans like them, I like them I mean hell I owned one prior to my current car. To an American a Cadillac is something special. If you take that nostalgia for the name away, like in Europe the car is seen for what it really is, average. Some would say "cheap". There is some truth to that casa.

Wrong. Cadillac is well loved by many Europeans and Asians. I also have found that South Americans seem to find Cadillacs as very nice vehicles as well. The problem that Cadillac has had.. as pointed outr by preceding posters on this very topic to U.. is that Cadillac went into Europe with:

1) no RHD vehicles
2) no Diesels
3) a LIMITED Line-Up
4) a MINUSCULE Dealer network, including Service Depts
5) No small Entry Level car other than a Saab 9-3 Rebadge that didn't look as good as the lesser Saab
6) Having to go up against homegrown makers that have the support of the IG Metal Auto Union workers and their families.

Quote:Take for example my 08 CTS, the dash was awesome, the wood was nice, the steering wheel felt expensive. However, the reading light switches were super cheap and moved when you pushed them, the switchgear was the same as any GMC or Chevy, the HVAC buttons were cheap, the sunroof creaked and the light shade moved if the window was open. Still, the car drove amazingly, it was quick, road well, handled even better but those cheap parts and willingness to cut corners here or there are what separate a good, or average car, from a great car.

Yet in all the new cars we are seeing much more attention to detail, innovative technologies, and materials that make even the biggest detractor stand up and notice. Sorry.. U described OLD GM tactics that are simply no longer a part of the NEW GM. I'm an optimist. I like looking to the future while only using the past as a map of experience.

Quote:There is part of my frustration with Cadillac, the CTS is 98% of the way towards being a car that there really is no arguing about. For the kind of price tag my CTS carried it was a good car. The XTS is going to be more expensive and it isn't any better on the whole. Take for example your old STS, that car could have been great but it had that terrible dash material half way down the dash board, it had that horrible plastic waterfall beneath the Nav system. Take that out and the platform was superb, the NorthStar was superb, even the 5 speed was excellent, the suspension was über advanced and the list goes on. The problem was much of what surrounded the driver was substandard. So 5 series buyers, Benz, Lexus and the like all went out, took a look and went right back to wherever it was they came from. Swing and a miss.

The best thing that can happen to any person as an auto enthusiasts is for Cadillac to get their head screwed on straight and really compete. I'd buy a Cadillac over anymore other brand if I felt I didn't have to compromise a damn thing. You're telling me that I'm not and that Cadillac s doing well, then again you bought an STS and thought it was as good, if not better than the Euroes, it wasn't and that's why its dead. Don't get me wrong, the STS WAS a good car but it wasn't there and as long as fanboys continue to talk about how wonderful cars are that aren't quite there yet then Cadillac will continue to sell them to you and those of us who want to walk between the Benz and the Caddy dealer won't be able to do so unless we lost our jobs and have to trade down.

This all coming from a real Cadillac fan, whose family has owned more Cadillac than I count and owned one himself.

Again.. looking to the past. The STS was an amazing vehicle with a few hiccups. The interior materials, despite all the positives U named above was the only thing that seemed to give U pause. U're a pessimist. U also might be delusional if U ever took a gander into a Mercedes from the same period. In fact.. the current E-Class has an interior that looks like it just fell out of a Cracker Jack box in terms of fit and finish. Go check one out.. get back to me.

People who buy European cars always seem to have this ideology. Well, when spending that type of money, one has to justify it in any way possible. Very often that comes in the form of denial. One can not fathom the idea that they spent $50K+ on a vehicle that they go to start, and it doesn't start. They cannot imagine the possibility that they spent $50K+ on a vehicle that leaves them stranded on the side of the road. They justify this purchase through vanity, compliments, and egotistical reminders by acquaintances on how much they paid for such an item. This is perpetuated by the manufacturer with terms like "Ultimate driving Machine" and technological overkill to cover up the deficiencies in engineering.

BMW has what I call "Glass Engines." They are clean, and streak free, but put any real time and stress on them and they are bound to shatter. Audi is even worse, except the entire car is glass. Benz is just gaudy crap, with really nice leather.

The psyche of the buyers of European luxury cars are probably a mish-mash of psychopathic and suicidal soup. I don't know how a Land Rover owner could ever even get a job in a sensitive, secure gov't position.

[Cmicasa the GreatXvX]

RoTiCaFo;167367 Wrote: You know, if you weren't such a foul mouthed, whiney little biatch you could hide your insecurities better. :2thumbsup:

I have self-esteem issues undeniably. I have, for years, chased women, hot cars, and wealth as a gauge of my happiness. Needless to say.. I'm one happy camper.

OH.. and your mother is a whiney little biatch. If she could keep the jerks outta her mouth we could then find out if she's foul mouthed or not. That biatch looooves lathering a jerk down with spit :ifyousayso:

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Ix3understeer;167368 Wrote:Hopefully they don't botch the release on this like they did with the SRX, that turbo engine was a bit of a slip-up.

Took them 1 year to fix that issue and all done... an SRX that will run down an X5

[RoTiCaFo]

I guess you mistake a connection with reality as being pessimism, oh well.

Cadillac has done so poorly in Europe because of poor vehicles, end of story. What you mentioned played a part, certainly, but good cars sell and shit cars don't. The Cadillacs that first showed up were the STSs from the late 90s. They were aging automobiles when they got there, they flopped. The first CTS, the BLS, the STS and the XLR all were made available and all flopped. Sub standard cars flop.

No car is without at least some positive attributes. If you didn't have to sit in the STS it was a great car, the problem is you could get several other cars that performed and drove well and were actually bearable to sit in.

You call it pessimism and I call it refusing to spend hard earned money on shit.

How is that old GM when that vehicle is still on sale today?

Many Euro buyers do so out of stupidity, others do it because they like them for the same reason your a Cadillac nut hugger.

[Ix3understeer]

Cmicasa the Great XvX;167380 Wrote:

RoTiCaFo;167367 Wrote: You know, if you weren't such a foul mouthed, whiney little biatch you could hide your insecurities better. :2thumbsup:

I have self-esteem issues undeniably. I have, for years, chased women, hot cars, and wealth as a gauge of my happiness. Needless to say.. I'm one happy camper.

OH.. and your mother is a whiney little biatch. If she could keep the jerks outta her mouth we could then find out if she's foul mouthed or not. That biatch looooves lathering a jerk down with spit :ifyousayso:

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Ix3understeer;167368 Wrote:Hopefully they don't botch the release on this like they did with the SRX, that turbo engine was a bit of a slip-up.

Took them 1 year to fix that issue and all done... an SRX that will run down an X5

So you're saying I should be excited a year after this launches for the REAL mini-Cadi CUV?

[RoTiCaFo]

Cmicasa the Great XvX;167380 Wrote:

RoTiCaFo;167367 Wrote: You know, if you weren't such a foul mouthed, whiney little biatch you could hide your insecurities better. :2thumbsup:

I have self-esteem issues undeniably. I have, for years, chased women, hot cars, and wealth as a gauge of my happiness. Needless to say.. I'm one happy camper.

OH.. and your mother is a whiney little biatch. If she could keep the jerks outta her mouth we could then find out if she's foul mouthed or not. That biatch looooves lathering a jerk down with spit :ifyousayso:

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Ix3understeer;167368 Wrote:Hopefully they don't botch the release on this like they did with the SRX, that turbo engine was a bit of a slip-up.

Took them 1 year to fix that issue and all done... an SRX that will run down an X5

Point proven! Lash out some more, clearly what I said struck close to home.

[Cmicasa the GreatXvX]

Ix3understeer;167386 Wrote:So you're saying I should be excited a year after this launches for the REAL mini-Cadi CUV?

I guess. It's been my experience with many an Automaker that the 1st year or two are normally not the best iterations of a car. U could say that this is only at GM,but I could easily point to other makers who have doe the same.

Ford announces a better SHO a year after it is launched. BMW changes the old E60 545i to the 550, and 530 to 535i about a year after the 2004 launches. Chevy bumps the HP up on the LLT Camaro in 2011 then changes the engine to the LFX in 2012. The C6 launches with the LS2 only to revise the Small-Block to the LS3 in '08. Toyota just launched the new Camry.. with the old Camry's engine. I bet there will be an improved one in a year or two.

It's par for the course. I love GM but I won't be trading my C6 in for a C7 until year 2 or 3, nor will I be switching my CTS-V out until year 2 of the next CTS-V or XTS Platinum.

[oldshurst442]

Cadillac hasnt done well in Europe largelly because Cadillac builds LARGE cars. Small european streets especially in villages, cant handle Cadillacs. For those who watch TOP GEAR, will realize when they test the American cars, they always denounce the way they handle and HOW BIG they are. The other point is that Europeans are more loyal to their brands. The French prefer Renaults and Citroens compared to VWs and Germans LOVE their Mercs and BMWs. Listen to TOP GEAR and realize those guys prefer English cars. We here fight what makes a car an American car(ACCORDS and Camrys) and biatch that the Camaro is BUILT in Canada, but those buffoons on TOP GEAR still talk like Rolls is British. Soooo all to say that Cadillac doesnt sell in Europe, because Europeans WILL never buy AMERICAN. The only Europeans that buy American cars are the ones the WANT AMERICANA and buy cars that personify that image the best: MUSTANGS and CORVETTES and JEEPS.