[The Voice of Doom]

Cmicasa the GreatXvX;186166 Wrote:

The Voice of Doom;186064 Wrote:Man, you can't praise Chevy for sticking to Cruze sedans only and then hype a FWD coupe that looks like a recycled G6 two-door. "Certain individuals" like the 130 because it's RWD. I'm one of them. More importantly, so are certain individuals within GM who recognize an opportunity when they see it. Does it have to be as blocky in production as the concept? Naaah. But it MUST be RWD, and I strongly suspect it will be.

Where am I praising Chevy for sticking to Sedans only??? Anyone can tell U that I've been the exact opposite since the Cruze went on sale. What I did do was say that with a SEDAN ONLY.. Chevy was able to move 232K units last year. I went on to say that the Cruze would sell 100K more if it had a hatch and a Coupe.

I am hyping the Tru 140concept because it would sell to people who actually buy fuckin cars.. and not the so-called enthusiasts who DID NOT EVEN BUY the Pontiac G8 in numbers enuff to MAKE GM keep it here as a consumer Chevy.

Now.. if the Tru140 came out as a RWD coupe... looking mostly like it does I would have no issue. Fuck I care? I do, on the other hand, have issue with the 130.. because it's fuckin UGLY.

The title of this thread suggests that you like the sedan-only approach with the Cruze, it didn't say why.

The 140 concept could not be built as presented in any case-according to C/D the glass is too raked to meet Federal standards. Since the only thing noteworthy about the 140 is it's rakishness, toning it down defeats the purpose of the car. The 130 is the superior concept.

The G8 had a number of strikes against it as far as being rebranded as a Chevy, not the least of which was the shipping involved in bringing a car from Australia to the US whose life cycle was already well along. To suggest that GM couldn't successfully move big RWD sedans when Chrysler does doesn't make sense.

I'll grant you that GM's bankruptcy should be a lesson in making cars that are profitable. But that's no excuse for making boring, me-too cars. If anything, it should be a warning against it.

[Cmicasa the GreatXvX]

The Voice of Doom;186380 Wrote:

Cmicasa the GreatXvX;186166 Wrote:

The Voice of Doom;186064 Wrote:Man, you can't praise Chevy for sticking to Cruze sedans only and then hype a FWD coupe that looks like a recycled G6 two-door. "Certain individuals" like the 130 because it's RWD. I'm one of them. More importantly, so are certain individuals within GM who recognize an opportunity when they see it. Does it have to be as blocky in production as the concept? Naaah. But it MUST be RWD, and I strongly suspect it will be.

Where am I praising Chevy for sticking to Sedans only??? Anyone can tell U that I've been the exact opposite since the Cruze went on sale. What I did do was say that with a SEDAN ONLY.. Chevy was able to move 232K units last year. I went on to say that the Cruze would sell 100K more if it had a hatch and a Coupe.

I am hyping the Tru 140concept because it would sell to people who actually buy fuckin cars.. and not the so-called enthusiasts who DID NOT EVEN BUY the Pontiac G8 in numbers enuff to MAKE GM keep it here as a consumer Chevy.

Now.. if the Tru140 came out as a RWD coupe... looking mostly like it does I would have no issue. Fuck I care? I do, on the other hand, have issue with the 130.. because it's fuckin UGLY.

The title of this thread suggests that you like the sedan-only approach with the Cruze, it didn't say why.

The 140 concept could not be built as presented in any case-according to C/D the glass is too raked to meed Federal standards. Since the only thing noteworthy about the 140 is it's rakishness, toning it down defeats the purpose of the car. The 130 is the superior concept.

The G8 had a number of strikes against it as far as being rebranded as a Chevy, not the least of which was the shipping involved in bringing a car to the US whose life cycle was already well along. To suggest that GM couldn't successfully move big RWD sedans when Chrysler does doesn't make sense.

I'll grant you that GM's bankruptcy should be a lesson in making cars that are profitable. But that's no excuse for making boring, me-too cars. If anything, it should be a warning against it.

Did U even click the Link? I took the Title of this thread from the article.

as far as GM making boring me-too cars... Chrysler has the Challenger, 300, and Charger. GM has the Camaro, CTS-V Sedan, Coupe, and Wagon, ATS, Corvette GS, Z06, ZR1, Regal GS...

No.. again... what was your point? This is almost as bad as Doc Carter saying I hated RWD with me owning a Camaro, CTS-V, Corvette, and Tahoe. To make it worse.. he even said I hated V8s. All the while.. he owns an Equinox, fwd and V6.

No offense Willy.. but I've been in sales and marketing for almost 20 years.. I kno what sells and who buys

[The Voice of Doom]

You explained where the thread title came from. Problem solved.

GM has a great opportunity to do something different in this segment with a world-class platform. I wouldn't say that you hate RWD, but between this and the XTS you sure seem to be taking a conservative approach with what sells. It is possible to be innovative and successful. In fact, one often leads to the other.

Frankly, if you had told me that there was a carmaker out there ignoring their small RWD platform so they could build small cars off an older FWD platform I'd have guessed that it was Toyota. And nobody wants that.

[Cmicasa the GreatXvX]

The Voice of Doom;186399 Wrote:You explained where the thread title came from. Problem solved.

GM has a great opportunity to do something different in this segment with a world-class platform. I wouldn't say that you hate RWD, but between this and the XTS you sure seem to be taking a conservative approach with what sells. It is possible to be innovative and successful. In fact, one often leads to the other.

Frankly, if you had told me that there was a carmaker out there ignoring their small RWD platform so they could build small cars off an older FWD platform I'd have guessed that it was Toyota. And nobody wants that.

Toyota was... and is still very successful. Ironically we say these things about Toyota.. but the actually have Lexus at about 70% RWD. Shit is still as boring to drive (with exception to the IS350 and F) as a fuckin ride on a lazy fat girl.. but still RWD is their choice.

My support and love of the XTS stems from my desire for Cadillac to have viable, strong product to sell. The XTS not being RWD doesn't at all make it automatically won't be a great car. A 3800lb techno tour de force with Advanced Haldex all-wheel-drive system with electronically controlled limited-slip differential, Magnetic Ride Control, rear air suspension, HiPer Strut front suspension and Brembo brakes – all standard sounds like a damn fine driver to me. But U have written it off before U have even taken it for a spin. Sad if U ask me.

Furthermore... I think that GM should have a nice mix of enthusiast mined cars and mainstream ones that are still dynamic in their own right.

[The Voice of Doom]

Toyota is successful only because of past brilliance fuelling customer perceptions. Care like the Supra, AE86 Corolla, and MR2 were RWD offerings that offset cars like the FWD Camry in their showrooms. These days all you get is FWD drivel, massive recalls, and Toyota's chairman admitting that things ain't what they used to be. The new Toyobaru is a badge-engineered solution that may or may not work.

The Koreans, however, learned well. The Genesis coupe and sedan are proof-positive that RWD is still a valid selling point in the minds of the consumer. I'm not suggesting GM go all RWD (the Malibu and Cruze sedan are just fine, and the Buick lineup should use AWD more often) but if the Alpha platform is ready to be used and you've got a good mix of powertrains, why NOT offer the marketplace something unique? The Vega failed back in the day not because it was RWD, but because it was... a Vega. Let's see what a GOOD small RWD coupe will do.

[Cmicasa the GreatXvX]

The Voice of Doom;186496 Wrote:Toyota is successful only because of past brilliance fuelling customer perceptions. Care like the Supra, AE86 Corolla, and MR2 were RWD offerings that offset cars like the FWD Camry in their showrooms. These days all you get is FWD drivel, massive recalls, and Toyota's chairman admitting that things ain't what they used to be. The new Toyobaru is a badge-engineered solution that may or may not work.

The Koreans, however, learned well. The Genesis coupe and sedan are proof-positive that RWD is still a valid selling point in the minds of the consumer. I'm not suggesting GM go all RWD (the Malibu and Cruze sedan are just fine, and the Buick lineup should use AWD more often) but if the Alpha platform is ready to be used and you've got a good mix of powertrains, why NOT offer the marketplace something unique? The Vega failed back in the day not because it was RWD, but because it was... a Vega. Let's see what a GOOD small RWD coupe will do.

Camaro will be smaller in just 2 short years. Why have two competing against each other for the same pricing? I mean come on... we aren't suggesting that the Camaro, like the Vette.. be moved upmarket as well are we?



and did U really just say that the :

Quote:The Genesis coupe and sedan are proof-positive that RWD is still a valid selling point in the minds of the consumer.

???

Yeah U did.:sad:

Have U actually looked the sales numbers of the COMBINED Genesis sales??? 32K for the entire year of 2011.. that's COMBINED coupe and Sedan. The CTS at a much higher cost... outsold it by 23K. The Camaro at a similar cost outsold it by 56K more. The Lacrosse with FWD outsold it by 30K. The SRX outsold it by 24K more. Some of those are FWD based.. all of them either cost the same or much more...

I'm not saying that RWD is a viable and great answer.. but I am saying that U people should trying to pretend that GM doesn't offer RWD vehicles... or that fuckin Hyundai or Chrysler have the exclusive market on said vehicles.

Again... I think my current garage proves that I'm not against RWD... it in fact proves it better than many of U can. If we concluded who loved RWD more based on purchases... Y'all or me... I think most of U would be going home with your tail between your legs... Because unlike the majority of RWD yappers on this site... I actually have RWD. In fact.. what were U rolling in before the Camaro??? If memory serves me right.. it was a FWD Pontiac. And while I also had the same car... I also, at the time had a RWD STS, C5 Corvette, and Yukon

[The Voice of Doom]

Cmicasa the GreatXvX;186498 Wrote:

The Voice of Doom;186496 Wrote:Toyota is successful only because of past brilliance fuelling customer perceptions. Care like the Supra, AE86 Corolla, and MR2 were RWD offerings that offset cars like the FWD Camry in their showrooms. These days all you get is FWD drivel, massive recalls, and Toyota's chairman admitting that things ain't what they used to be. The new Toyobaru is a badge-engineered solution that may or may not work.

The Koreans, however, learned well. The Genesis coupe and sedan are proof-positive that RWD is still a valid selling point in the minds of the consumer. I'm not suggesting GM go all RWD (the Malibu and Cruze sedan are just fine, and the Buick lineup should use AWD more often) but if the Alpha platform is ready to be used and you've got a good mix of powertrains, why NOT offer the marketplace something unique? The Vega failed back in the day not because it was RWD, but because it was... a Vega. Let's see what a GOOD small RWD coupe will do.

Camaro will be smaller in just 2 short years. Why have two competing against each other for the same pricing? I mean come on... we aren't suggesting that the Camaro, like the Vette.. be moved upmarket as well are we?



and did U really just say that the :

Quote:The Genesis coupe and sedan are proof-positive that RWD is still a valid selling point in the minds of the consumer.

???

Yeah U did.:sad:

Have U actually looked the sales numbers of the COMBINED Genesis sales??? 32K for the entire year of 2011.. that's COMBINED coupe and Sedan. The CTS at a much higher cost... outsold it by 23K. The Camaro at a similar cost outsold it by 56K more. The Lacrosse with FWD outsold it by 30K. The SRX outsold it by 24K more. Some of those are FWD based.. all of them either cost the same or much more...

I'm not saying that RWD is a viable and great answer.. but I am saying that U people should trying to pretend that GM doesn't offer RWD vehicles... or that fuckin Hyundai or Chrysler have the exclusive market on said vehicles.

Again... I think my current garage proves that I'm not against RWD... it in fact proves it better than many of U can. If we concluded who loved RWD more based on purchases... Y'all or me... I think most of U would be going home with your tail between your legs... Because unlike the majority of RWD yappers on this site... I actually have RWD. In fact.. what were U rolling in before the Camaro??? If memory serves me right.. it was a FWD Pontiac. And while I also had the same car... I also, at the time had a RWD STS, C5 Corvette, and Yukon

I'm not saying GM doesn't have RWD vehicles at all. I'm saying that they have a prime opportunity to do a great RWD vehicle that nobody else can currently do. What's so wrong about that? Chevy is moving tons of Cruzes worldwide so the amortization of tooling and whatnot is already well underway. Now is the ideal time for a car like this-if it succeeds it won't be at the expense of the Cruze and if it doesn't at least the Camaro and ATS will be able to pick up the slack. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[iDream Theater]

Perhaps they could do an ATS rebadge into a de-contented Chevy. But irregardless, the Tru concept is the way to go... not that... OTHER thing...

[The Voice of Doom]

iDream Theater;186739 Wrote:Perhaps they could do an ATS rebadge into a de-contented Chevy. But irregardless, the Tru concept is the way to go... not that... OTHER thing...

An ATS rebadge would be a disaster. Cadillac engineering in a Chevy is one thing but Cadillac styling in a sedan layout hits too close to home.

The 130's styling isn't cast in stone so there's no reason to see why it has to look exactly like this when it debuts in a few years. It's genius is under the skin. Remember, the concept Volt and the production Volt were two very different vehicles.

[Cmicasa the GreatXvX]

The Voice of Doom;186738 Wrote:I'm not saying GM doesn't have RWD vehicles at all. I'm saying that they have a prime opportunity to do a great RWD vehicle that nobody else can currently do. What's so wrong about that? Chevy is moving tons of Cruzes worldwide so the amortization of tooling and whatnot is already well underway. Now is the ideal time for a car like this-if it succeeds it won't be at the expense of the Cruze and if it doesn't at least the Camaro and ATS will be able to pick up the slack. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I get what U're saying but the Camaro is set to get smaller in 2 years. On top of that the Cruze coupe based on the Tru 140 would simply appeal to more people. The Alpha platform needs to certainly spawn more variants... but Chevy with the:
Spark
Sonic
Cruze
Malibu
Volt
Impala
Camaro
Corvette
does not need another car to crowd the dealerships. A variant... for the Cruze.. both coupe and hatch would address all needs of the enthusiast.. with the Camaro base model getting the RWD lovers who needed a less expensive model. U produce a like, but smaller, cheaper, RWD model and Camaro sales will suffer. Bet on it. Do Cruze variants and sales will double on that model... I don't see anyone complaining about the fun to drive factor, or performance of their "OLD GM" built Cobalt SS which still holds records at the Ring, and handled like a dream despite being FWD with none of the new innovations GM has brought to that config. over the last 2 years.

As for Alpha.. It needs to spawn high profit Cadillac ATS variants, a Riviera Coupe/Convertible, an XLRm, and ATS variants, along with teh next Camaro and BRX

[The Voice of Doom]

Cmicasa the GreatXvX;186760 Wrote:As for Alpha.. It needs to spawn high profit Cadillac ATS variants, a Riviera Coupe/Convertible, an XLRm, and ATS variants, along with teh next Camaro and BRX[/b]

I'm with you on the ATS spinoffs... VERY angry that Wall Street is delaying the intro of these cars to meet short-term stock values. I like the idea of a new Riviera but I doubt it'll happen because it's a niche that Cadillac should have to itself (does Acura even build a large coupe anymore?). If they do another XLR they should do it off the C7 platform with aluminum body panels so they give that platform more volume. The Camaro/130 and BRX will move lots of Alphas as well.

[ReaganLogan]

Thats complete BS, noone is cross shopping a Wagon with a CUV....

But I do want to see the CRUZE Hatch here

[Cmicasa the GreatXvX]

The Voice of Doom;186823 Wrote:

Cmicasa the GreatXvX;186760 Wrote:As for Alpha.. It needs to spawn high profit Cadillac ATS variants, a Riviera Coupe/Convertible, an XLRm, and ATS variants, along with teh next Camaro and BRX[/b]

I'm with you on the ATS spinoffs... VERY angry that Wall Street is delaying the intro of these cars to meet short-term stock values. I like the idea of a new Riviera but I doubt it'll happen because it's a niche that Cadillac should have to itself (does Acura even build a large coupe anymore?). If they do another XLR they should do it off the C7 platform with aluminum body panels so they give that platform more volume. The Camaro/130 and BRX will move lots of Alphas as well.

Cadillac should have two sporty roadsters to compete in the Luxo segment. An XLRm would be a Z4/SLK/TT competitor on Alpha in convertible soft and hardtop. The XLR would essentially be a C7 re-bodied as a Cien


this would be the XLRm





this would be the XLR

[ncguy]

Quote:But I do want to see the CRUZE Hatch here

This couldn't happen fast enough!

[Gixser995]

Cmicasa the GreatXvX;186841 Wrote:

The Voice of Doom;186823 Wrote:

Cmicasa the GreatXvX;186760 Wrote:As for Alpha.. It needs to spawn high profit Cadillac ATS variants, a Riviera Coupe/Convertible, an XLRm, and ATS variants, along with teh next Camaro and BRX[/b]

I'm with you on the ATS spinoffs... VERY angry that Wall Street is delaying the intro of these cars to meet short-term stock values. I like the idea of a new Riviera but I doubt it'll happen because it's a niche that Cadillac should have to itself (does Acura even build a large coupe anymore?). If they do another XLR they should do it off the C7 platform with aluminum body panels so they give that platform more volume. The Camaro/130 and BRX will move lots of Alphas as well.

Cadillac should have two sporty roadsters to compete in the Luxo segment. An XLRm would be a Z4/SLK/TT competitor on Alpha in convertible soft and hardtop. The XLR would essentially be a C7 re-bodied as a Cien


this would be the XLRm





this would be the XLR

I like my XLR render, more.