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+--- Thread: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. (/thread-16174.html)
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - MOPAR74 - 05-26-2012 12:59 AM
docCarter;208076 Wrote:MOPAR74;208062 Wrote:After Dieter Zetsche and DBAG(Daimler-Benz Automotive Group)
That was almost too perfect
Gixser995;208078 Wrote:DBag.
As much as I would like to take credit for that one, I cannot... You two can thank Allpar.com for that... as thats where I saw it, I laughed very hard for a long time about that
And whats really funny about it is THEY WERE DBAGS TO CHRYSLER
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - Cmicasa the GreatXvX - 05-26-2012 05:58 AM
RotaryKing aka Rev;208052 Wrote:I wasn't going to chime in but might as well get what I have to say in before this thread gets butchered and goes for the record books for length.
I sat in this car at NYIAS, the interior is stunning. No denying that. I don't care for the exterior proportions and I think the car looks a little awkward but then again those are my subjective opinions (I was too busy drooling over the ATS). Its funny, after reading the reviews, it seems as if Cadillac is in denial as to who this car is competing against. They say it doesn't compete against the S-Class, A8, 7, XJ, or the mid size Euro luxury cars, but then Cadillac is quick to point out that it has more leg room than the 5-Series. They also say that its not the DTS/STS replacement and that its not the final ultra luxury car targeted against the Germans, which begs the question, what is the point of it and who are they competing against? When I first heard the rumors, I was all for this car but as time went on I was less and less thrilled. I could care less what drive wheels propel this car and I don't think the people who buy the luxury barges (older people with plenty of money) care either. They drive them to the country club and around town, I doubt they even know how to use the infotainment to them (many from my experience, don't). Based on those little bits of information it really does seem that its a replacement for the DTS. An incredibly well done replacement, probably more than the outgoing DTS deserves. Based on the reviews, the CUE is glitchy just like the system in the Malibu Eco was. I understand that this is just a pre-production model, but the Malibu wasn't and had the same issues. I'm being told that its a stop-gap until the flagship comes out, but does that mean this will be axed? After talking to some Caddy reps, that seems to be the impression I'm getting and I understand that they can't talk about it so I won't hold it against them for being mum about the information. I guess I'm just really wondering what the point of this car is. I wonder about what the point of a lot of cars are but I just think Caddy didn't need this particular car right away. The ATS is the right step and I really would love to own one, but this just doesn't make sense to me. I honestly just see this as an ultra luxury Buick LaCrosse, and I like the LaCrosse as an ES competitor. Maybe it should have been a Buick?
Your points are respectable... and I think had Cadillac NOT come out with this wishy washy marketing bullshit that it has then we enthusiasts would not be so lost in what this car is supposed to be. The excuses surfaced when Cadillac, no GM... started allowing the minority (enthusiasts) to dictate what the MAJORITY (mainstream buyers) would interpret as top of the line luxury. The XTS, should have been simply called the DTS or STS.. but for all intents.. the DTS and STS were co-Flagships for most of their life spans... The DTS being the Deville/Fleetwood/Brough... the STS being the Seville. The confusion came waaaaaaaaaay back in 1998 when the Escalade was intro'd and the biggest Cadillac was now an SUV.. The Biggest usually being the Flagship. Then.. in 2003... we saw the XLR... a new Flagship/Halo.
Point is... the message is confusing.. and right now.. .they are attempting to rectify the marketing fuck ups of the past. The line-up wil be (until the ULS arrives):
ATS
(ELR)
SRX
CTS
(SRX-L)
XTS
Escalade
(ULS)
No matter what the underpinning come from.. it would seem based on the reviews from Edmunds, Motor Authority, Autoweek, C&D, and even MT.. that Cadillac has augmented the car's platform to a point that it simply can no longer be compared to a LaCrosse. It's bigger.. It's a better handler.. it's more luxo.. it's more expensive. Sounds like a truly different car to me.
Where Cadillac dropped the ball is the powertrain. This is the only place I will give the Italian's credit... they went to ZF and got an 8speed to get them thru. GM always actually looking to build their own.. is suffering because of this.. as they could have, with the ZF coupled to a more powerful V6 or even V8.
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - Cmicasa the GreatXvX - 05-26-2012 06:11 AM
MOPAR74;208062 Wrote:Casa..... Sergio Marchionne is a Canadian Italian and owns dual citizenship.
After Dieter Zetsche and DBAG(Daimler-Benz Automotive Group) came Cerberus and Robert Nardelli(American company that fucked them as hard as DBAG)
THEN Sergio Marchionne... the Savior of Chrysler.
Sorry Casa, but if you think the LaCrosse is better than the 300 you are either high, or you have finally lost your damn mind... NOT smarter.
I understand that your GM bias requires you to make such a claim though, and for the record... I never said the 300 competed with the XTS considering the XTS starts where the 300C tops out... but Chrysler might be able to steal away a few buyers of the lower level XTS.
ID watch out for Chrysler though, they have come a long way in a short amount of time... they will only continue to get better.... also Sergio did say that his goal for Chrysler is to get to the level of Cadillac, and after all the things he has done so far... I wouldnt bet against that man.
SAVIOR OF CHRYSLER. Riiiiight.
Fiat is looking to TAKE OVER CHRYSLER. So if the Japanese Gov't came into America to "SAVE" our Government.. and we subsequently started seeing JAPANESE FLAGS popping up all over Washington D.C. and such... U'd call them our saviors as well right??? Dude.. get a grip.
Sergio is a business man.. and he's no different than Dieter, with one exception.. Fiat has more experience in developing and implementing MEDIOCRE cars because they are a mainstream maker where as Daimler is pure luxury.
Again... your only saving grace as to why the 300 is supposedly better than the Lacrosse is that it has a V8. Interior wise and luxury appointments... The Buick is simply better.. and that's comparing the top 300 with the top Lacrosse.
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - Cmicasa the GreatXvX - 05-26-2012 06:14 AM
vexner;208059 Wrote:I stand by what I said...
Let's see a comparison between a BASE $45K XTS and a similarly priced 300C/SRT, Taurus SHO and La Crosse.
I predict that the top 2 choices would not be Obama Motors products.
Aahhhhh AMERICA's "Savior 2008-2016"
![[Image: obama_press_conf_halo_s640x427.jpg?73b8e...ztFuwZTFMA]](http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://media.washtimes.com/media/community/viewpoint/entry/2012/04/29/obama_press_conf_halo_s640x427.jpg?73b8e21685896c3f2859310aaa5adb253919b641&sa=X&ei=FsnAT5LVHMeD6AGG8uyiCg&ved=0CAkQ8wc4EQ&usg=AFQjCNEK82GEWfvW0ddR3BiHztFuwZTFMA)
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - Gixser995 - 05-26-2012 08:37 AM
2008 - 2016.
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - Thed - 05-26-2012 09:28 AM
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - McLovin - 05-26-2012 10:09 AM
I will say this much, I think chrysler will be gaining sales like a mofo, sucking up market share from everyone. I just don't see the same kind of growth for gm. New Cadillac product is nice, sure, but Buick will be suffering there. I see only modest growth for both gm and ford in the next few years......unless fuel prices shoot up in a big way. Then I see ford taking the lead with far more emphasis on fuel economy and electric options.
But, I have been wrong before........on very rare occasions.
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - jspookss - 05-26-2012 10:33 AM
Lol rare occasions = all the time
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - Cmicasa the GreatXvX - 05-26-2012 11:08 AM
McLovin;208136 Wrote:I will say this much, I think chrysler will be gaining sales like a mofo, sucking up market share from everyone. I just don't see the same kind of growth for gm. New Cadillac product is nice, sure, but Buick will be suffering there. I see only modest growth for both gm and ford in the next few years......unless fuel prices shoot up in a big way. Then I see ford taking the lead with far more emphasis on fuel economy and electric options.
But, I have been wrong before........on very rare occasions.
I agree about Chrysler having stronger sales.. but one has to realize that their sales had dropped considerably from 2007 to 2012. OF course their numbers would look better now. On top of that.. they have a lead in Fleet percentages.
Also.. I don't see Cadillac sales effecting Buick. I have said it before and I'll say it again... I don't kno one Cadillac buyer who cross-shops a Buick. GM has done an excellent job in differentiating the vehicles in content and price.. so as to steer buyers towards the right brand. The Lacrosse is not shopped against the CTS. The ATS will not be cross-shopped with a Regal.. the Enclave is not shopped against a SRX or Escalade. At least not by ACTUAL buyers with ACTUAL money.
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - BasiliskSt - 05-26-2012 01:08 PM
I do think Buick and Cadillac have distinct luxury niches.
Buick buyers want high quality and sophistication but generally don't want to shout about their success. (There's still room for a Wildcat in the bunch.)
Cadillac buyers generally do want to make a statement about their success and solidity. Flash matters as they want people to know when they've arrived.
Cadillac's very distinctive Art & Science design is perfect for this market. It does not blend into the generic automotive background.
Buick's comparative quite elegance works well for it's target market.
I'll give Lexus credit for innovating the long roof short rear deck look for the luxury market with the 2005 GS though the current GS isn't as strongly styled as the 2005-2007. (I think the GS is getting fussier and less distinctive.)
I love the long roof arc of the XTS. (Styling is admittedly very personal, but I'm probably in the age, professional stature, and income range that Cadillac wants to attract.) I don't think I would guess that the LaCrosse, XTS and 2014 Impala have any common genes but for reading of the connection. This isn't badge engineering like the 1980s. Each is a distinctive top hat with plenty of chassis differentiation. But maybe the proportions just work for me, because I like all three of these designs. The FWD wheel position doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I like it better than many RWD sedans. My current favorites in RWD sedan proportions are XJ, XF, 300C and CTS. There are a lot I don't like that poorly handle the front corner chamfer to the outer wheel arch. The added space between the wheel well and firewall doesn't matter if the leading edge struggles to organically meet the wheel arch. I'm still betting Cadillac has a sales success with the XTS. Time will tell.
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - jspookss - 05-26-2012 02:54 PM
This thing will sell like gang busters. The whole "where does it fall" "its not RWD" is just fodder for "enthusiasts".
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - McLovin - 05-26-2012 02:54 PM
Cmicasa the GreatXvX;208145 Wrote:McLovin;208136 Wrote:I will say this much, I think chrysler will be gaining sales like a mofo, sucking up market share from everyone. I just don't see the same kind of growth for gm. New Cadillac product is nice, sure, but Buick will be suffering there. I see only modest growth for both gm and ford in the next few years......unless fuel prices shoot up in a big way. Then I see ford taking the lead with far more emphasis on fuel economy and electric options.
But, I have been wrong before........on very rare occasions.
I agree about Chrysler having stronger sales.. but one has to realize that their sales had dropped considerably from 2007 to 2012. OF course their numbers would look better now. On top of that.. they have a lead in Fleet percentages.
Also.. I don't see Cadillac sales effecting Buick. I have said it before and I'll say it again... I don't kno one Cadillac buyer who cross-shops a Buick. GM has done an excellent job in differentiating the vehicles in content and price.. so as to steer buyers towards the right brand. The Lacrosse is not shopped against the CTS. The ATS will not be cross-shopped with a Regal.. the Enclave is not shopped against a SRX or Escalade. At least not by ACTUAL buyers with ACTUAL money.
Casa, everything is cross shopped with everything, don't kid yourself. That much I have learned about today's shopper. Perhaps to a lessor degree as you move up in classes, but nonetheless. Reason? A huge percentage still just flocks where the lease deals are or where the incentives are -- and GM will try to balance both volumes with deals as they see fit. Styling might actually take a back seat to price too, but Buick is no slouch in the looks department. And RWD preference is very small, especially today with FWD getting so much better. Buick is hot right now, and soon, as the caddy steps right on their toes tit for tat with new product filling lots, plus incentives on the aging CTS, I have little doubt that Buick sales will drop. So total sales is what matters, and the total will grow, just not as much as you come across believing.
And Chrysler sales will certainly grow relative to prior, but I believe far more so. They are filling product voids like crazy, and it's hard to hate on their performance image and aggressive styling.
But again, one big sustained price hike in gas, that causes a shift in product sales, and they will be bringing up the rear, yet again.
RE: 2013 Cadillac XTS First Drive Edmunds and Motor Trends. - BasiliskSt - 05-26-2012 06:55 PM
McLovin;208173 Wrote:Cmicasa the GreatXvX;208145 Wrote:McLovin;208136 Wrote:I will say this much, I think chrysler will be gaining sales like a mofo, sucking up market share from everyone. I just don't see the same kind of growth for gm. New Cadillac product is nice, sure, but Buick will be suffering there. I see only modest growth for both gm and ford in the next few years......unless fuel prices shoot up in a big way. Then I see ford taking the lead with far more emphasis on fuel economy and electric options.
But, I have been wrong before........on very rare occasions.
I agree about Chrysler having stronger sales.. but one has to realize that their sales had dropped considerably from 2007 to 2012. OF course their numbers would look better now. On top of that.. they have a lead in Fleet percentages.
Also.. I don't see Cadillac sales effecting Buick. I have said it before and I'll say it again... I don't kno one Cadillac buyer who cross-shops a Buick. GM has done an excellent job in differentiating the vehicles in content and price.. so as to steer buyers towards the right brand. The Lacrosse is not shopped against the CTS. The ATS will not be cross-shopped with a Regal.. the Enclave is not shopped against a SRX or Escalade. At least not by ACTUAL buyers with ACTUAL money.
Casa, everything is cross shopped with everything, don't kid yourself. That much I have learned about today's shopper. Perhaps to a lessor degree as you move up in classes, but nonetheless. Reason? A huge percentage still just flocks where the lease deals are or where the incentives are -- and GM will try to balance both volumes with deals as they see fit. Styling might actually take a back seat to price too, but Buick is no slouch in the looks department. And RWD preference is very small, especially today with FWD getting so much better. Buick is hot right now, and soon, as the caddy steps right on their toes tit for tat with new product filling lots, plus incentives on the aging CTS, I have little doubt that Buick sales will drop. So total sales is what matters, and the total will grow, just not as much as you come across believing.
And Chrysler sales will certainly grow relative to prior, but I believe far more so. They are filling product voids like crazy, and it's hard to hate on their performance image and aggressive styling.
But again, one big sustained price hike in gas, that causes a shift in product sales, and they will be bringing up the rear, yet again.
I've heard analysts concerned with Chrysler's exposure to another gas shock. I think FIAT Studios should have been internal to Dodge/Chrysler dealerships so that in the event of a gas shock there would be a natural high economy option under the same roof. The Dart is a good step to defend against high gas prices, but even with the Dart, Chrysler is pretty skewed to bigger engines compared to Ford or even GM. Both Ford and Chevy are well positioned for a gas shock. Some cars like the Spark that are probably low volume in the U.S. today are ready should the need arise.
The rich probably don't care as much so high buck vehicles can survive. But work vehicles and get to work vehicles of the middle class would suffer in a gas shock.