Hello folks,

I went to my local BMW dealership today with my pops to get some regular maintenance done. The first thing I did when entering the dealership was go and sit in some magnificent cars. There was a beautiful red Z4 35i, a 750 Li w/ Rear Seat Entertainment Package, a 535i, and a couple 3ers there.

While making my second round, a salesman asks me if I have any questions. I know that a tech specialist is the right person to ask, but I thought why not see what he has to say. My question was "so over the past year I've been reading a lot of negative reviews on the new 5-series about its steering setup. Apparently it's very vague and un-BMW like. Would you know if BMW is doing anything to address these complaints? (here comes trouble):

Salesman: don't believe any of them, it drives just fine.
Me: well, that's not what I've been reading.
Salesman: they don't know what they are talking about. You don't know if they have been reviewing just 528s without sport package.
Me: (chuckling) no they've been reviewing 528s, 535s, and 550s with and without sport package. But anyways, it's a beautiful car and one of my favorite cars on the road right now, even a candidate for World Car of the Year, but these reviews leave me very skeptical.
Salesman: oh I didn't even know that (:brickwall. This car drives just like it should, it's even lighter than its predecessor.
(That statement right there just set me off).
Me: no, actually this thing gained 250-400 pounds, that's completely wrong.
Salesman: (looks at me dead in the eye like he's trying to intimidate me) well its a much bigger car than before, more comfortable as well. Oh and look at these upgraded wheels and little spoiler its got on the back. Looks great doesn't it.

I just turned my back and left in anger. First of all, this chump denies anything is wrong with the product. When a customer complains or has a concern, companies do not deny problems, they tell how they will address those problems in order to keep customer happy right?

Second of all, this idiot treats me like I don't know anything about the car. He thinks he can fool me like he does to other people, saying it's "lighter than its predecessor" when in reality its weight gain is just plain old sinful. When I contradict him he contradicts himself and changes the topic. His manner of speaking was cocky and ignorant the whole time.

Third, this buffoon doesn't know squat about the product. I easily know more about this car, and probably the rest of BMW's lineup as well, more than this prick.

That experience left me very, very ticked off. I was so angry I just sat in the waiting room until the car was done and left. I was originally planning on seeing some X3s in the dealer lot and taking the 5er for another spin with my dad (unfortunately he fell asleep as they were showing Golf on TV). Later today I called the manager to complain. I don't want anything from the dealership like free car wash and waxes and all. I just want to set them straight and tell them not to lie on any customer's face ever again and to educate their employees on the product so they don't make a fool of themselves again.

Manager didn't pick up so I left a voicemail, he called back but I was asleep and missed it. I'll call back tomorrow and give them a piece of my mind.

I didn't even want the see a BMW the rest of the day; that was truly just ridiculous. I don't believe it is BMWs fault as all dealerships have unqualified fools trying to sell cars, but still...

Car looked like this but had a CF spoiler, and was (obviously) clean with tire polish.

And by the way, when my folks look for their next car, I'll be pushing for Mercedes, Lexus, or Porsche. I love BMWs but would like more variety. We've have a Cadillac, Audis, Infiniti, BMWs, it's time to try something different.

Quote:Salesman: oh I didn't even know that

I can't tell you how many times I have met a salesmen that was trying to sell things that I knew more about than they did. It is going to happen no matter where you go, and no matter what dealer/brand you are looking at.

Quote:Me: no, actually this thing gained 250-400 pounds, that's completely wrong.
Salesman: well its a much bigger car than before, more comfortable as well. Oh and look at these upgraded wheels and little spoiler its got on the back. Looks great doesn't it.

Quote: this idiot treats me like I don't know anything about the car.

You found a sleezeball car salesmen. Now you know why car salesmen have a bad rep.

Quote: Later that day I called the manager to complain.
Manager didn't pick up so I left a voicemail, he called back

You did say that the dealer called you back though. Hopefully that means that that dealer cares and they will get rid of the IDIOT you talked to while you were there.

BP, there will always be shitty dealers and especially shitty sales people. From my experience most dealer salespeople know their shit, I got into a convo with a Cadillac salesperson talking about Sigma and Alpha one time at a dealer, and he knew his shit.

The problem in this case is the salesperson is designed to reel in 90% of current BMW buyers. 90% of BMW buyers are really uneducated about cars and only buy for badge.


Moral of the story, there will always be sales people who think your an idiot, even though your not.

Good story though, I was thoroughly entertained and nearly spilled my tea when he said the new 5er is lighter than before

docCarter;69108 Wrote:BP, there will always be shitty dealers and especially shitty sales people. From my experience most dealer salespeople know their shit, I got into a convo with a Cadillac salesperson talking about Sigma and Alpha one time at a dealer, and he knew his shit.

The problem in this case is the salesperson is designed to reel in 90% of current BMW buyers. 90% of BMW buyers are really uneducated about cars and only buy for badge.


Moral of the story, there will always be sales people who think your an idiot, even though your not.

I disagree that 90% of BMW buyers are uneducated about cars. Every dealer for any brand knows that the majority of people who step foot in the door lack knowledge on cars. I've had it with every luxury and non-luxury dealer I've been to. Even Ferrari/Maserati of Seattle salespeople are taught that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I will say however, BMW customers are definitely more informed about cars than your average Ford or Toyota customer.

However, when salespeople lie right on a customer's face that is definitely pushing it. He should've been cautious, as I'm a young guy, not an old fart who he can get away with lying to.

I caught him red handed and he tries to intimidate me by glaring into my eyes. I wish I had gotten that fools name.

Walk back in, find him, get his name, than punch him in the face.

And yes, I think that is a good figure for how many BMW drivers are clueless about cars. 80% of 1er owners thought their car was FWD.

You don't have to start your anit-BMW comments here. The whole world admires and respects the brand (#1 in FB 'likes' as well).

I think I'll try to avoid that dealership from now on. They seem to have the feeling that their cars just sell themselves.




Wait they do lol.

And on that note.

Ah this is why I hate car salesmen, they don't know shit about cars. If I'm getting a new car at any car dealership, I better have someone that actually knows what they're talking about. When I was at a Chevy Dealer with my dad to look at a Camaro, some retard salesman said that the Camaro we were looking at has four doors and a 4-speed manual
BTW BP you just earned yourself rep points for this very good story :2thumbsup:

Ok, let me make one thing clear, the vast majority of ANY brands customers know very little about the cars themselves.

This is as true and probably more so for high end vehicles like BMW's. From the Ford dealer I used to work for who also owned a BMW store, and from my own experience of the multitude of Bimmer owners I have known, the owners are fairly clueless to the cars and are there for the badge and the styling etc.

I have been a die hard Ford fan since the mid 70's. I was always known to tear through a multitude of car mags. I always thought I knew everything I needed to know about Fords and indeed before I sold them there were times when I felt I was 'schooling' the salesmen I was dealing with.

What surprised me the most is when I started to sell Fords, I then started the courses on becoming a Ceritified Ford sales rep. Even on the models I thought I knew cold, there was information I did not know, and quite frankly there was information about each car that you will never find in the car mags. I took the courses pretty seriously and as a result there was no Ford customer that could come to me and know more about the car/truck then I did, and that definitely worked in mine and the customers favor.

Having said that, if you don't take certification seriously and just do what you have to to pass, you won't as a salesman be any better off.

That is probably the tye of guy you ran into at the dealership.

It is unfortunate for the him and the dealership because it is that kind of laziness that can sway consumers to other dealers and possibly other brands.

The guy violated the first principle of sales: 'know your buyer'. Even if you are not there to buy a car, the impression he/she will leave is critical in growing his referral network. Sadly, most car salespeople are not good sales people at all, but often they are severely under the gun to 'move the metal' and will behave accordingly, i.e., not working the 'long game' at all.

There seem to be two types in the car biz (and many other businesses as well); the ones who think they're god's gift, behave with arrogance and stupidity, burn brightly for a while maybe, but then burn out. Then there's the good ones - a lifetime spent carefully cultivating a strong referral network, taking the time to know their product thoroughly (and those of their competitors as well) and who you'd gladly sit down and have a beer with.

This guy sounds like the former, and I think if I was in his position, I would simply have said 'let's book a test drive and you can make your own decision'.

lengnert;69157 Wrote:Ok, let me make one thing clear, the vast majority of ANY brands customers know very little about the cars themselves.

This is as true and probably more so for high end vehicles like BMW's. From the Ford dealer I used to work for who also owned a BMW store, and from my own experience of the multitude of Bimmer owners I have known, the owners are fairly clueless to the cars and are there for the badge and the styling etc.

I have been a die hard Ford fan since the mid 70's. I was always known to tear through a multitude of car mags. I always thought I knew everything I needed to know about Fords and indeed before I sold them there were times when I felt I was 'schooling' the salesmen I was dealing with.

What surprised me the most is when I started to sell Fords, I then started the courses on becoming a Ceritified Ford sales rep. Even on the models I thought I knew cold, there was information I did not know, and quite frankly there was information about each car that you will never find in the car mags. I took the courses pretty seriously and as a result there was no Ford customer that could come to me and know more about the car/truck then I did, and that definitely worked in mine and the customers favor.

Having said that, if you don't take certification seriously and just do what you have to to pass, you won't as a salesman be any better off.

That is probably the tye of guy you ran into at the dealership.

It is unfortunate for the him and the dealership because it is that kind of laziness that can sway consumers to other dealers and possibly other brands.

There's also a couple of other possible explanations. BP won't like this but life is tough.

1) He could have also gotten a "green pea" salesman who simply doesn't have all the product knowledge yet. I've been with Ford for over a year now and I still don't know EVERYthing, and I consider myself extremely well-educated about not only about my product, but the competition's as well.

Just the other day we had a couple of - well, the industry term for people like this is "handjob" and these guys definitely qualified for the term - guys who wanted to know things like rear axle ratios for all the Mustang variations (which are not published in the product guides or brochures), the steering ratios, all of the gearbox ratios... basically they tied up 4 of us trying to supply them with answers. When they ultimately realized they could not order a car built the way they want, they gave the poor salesman a "we'll think about it" and left.

Trust me, if those guys do come back, they will be paying FULL LIST for the car.

2) I myself suffer from a particular 17-year old "handjob" whose parents have a Windstar in service being repaired under the recall. This kid somehow gravitated toward my desk and I gave him a few moments of my time - and now he won't leave me alone. He wanted me to give him a full tutorial on MyFord Touch, followed by test-drives in the EcoBoost F150, the Mustang GT, and a new Edge. Not gonna happen. He showed up one day during a full-blown monsoon and wanted me to open various cars on the lot for him. NO!

3) When negative material is written about a vehicle, the manufacturers do not immediately send out information kits to help salespeople counter those reports. Ford has not sent us materials on how to deal with the myriad problems of MyFord Touch; We also had issues in 2010 with 4-cyl Escapes and Fusions with the 6-speed automatic suffering transmission failures. The problem is well-documented, but Ford hasn't sent us "how-to-deal--ith it" kits either. (by the way, the problem has been fixed).

4) BP is funny because he's bringing up issues that I - and anybody who is a BMW purist - complain about. Yet he also said I sound like an angry old man for mentioning them. Hypocrite much, BP? I guarantee you 98% of the current 5 & 7 series buyers have no clue that older Bimmers have far more communicative steering. There may not be a "fix" for the problem because there is no problem. BMW's steering system works exactly as its supposed to. The new hardware is simply not as communicative as a pure rack-and-pinion system, so it just doesn't work the way us grumpy old men (and car magazine testers) would like. Why torture the salesman about it? He didn't build it.

5) Regarding the weight issue - BP is correct about this one. The salesperson should know that as technology advances, as customers demand more and more gadgets in their cars, and as safety and emissions regulations keep getting more stringent - cars will increase in weight and size. The salesman could have simply pointed this out to you and whether you accept the explanation or not, it is still a valid explanation.

Understand that if the way you have conducted yourself in this forum is in any way indicative of the way you act in person, the following perception was probably applied to you by the salesman and/or his manager:

"OH NO! That smart-ass badge-snob kid who didn't pay for his own car and needs daddy to cover the service bill is here again looking at cars he can't afford, and now he's asking confrontational questions, tying up a salesperson's valuable time. Send in the greenpea, it'll be a good learning experience for him - but tell him to broom the kid ASAP."

Trust me, it's not just the car business that has these preconceptions. All retail businesses have to deal with it. I treat EVERY person I meet as a potential customer without prejudice. Speed Devil will tell you firsthand, when I met him, I didn't know him and yet I was happy to give him a test-drive in a Mustang GT, followed by stickshift lessons. I know he's not going to buy a Mustang, it's not his type of car - but maybe his dad will buy a truck from me. So of course I treat him with respect - but he's also NEVER been a douche with me or anyone else at our dealership. He gives respect, so he gets it in return.

Wow, one bad experience and he's jumping to another brand, what a loyalist XD

Shit son, are you retarded or something, instead of acting like a little bitch about some clueless salesman, just take his damn job so you can educate the masses with your knowledge

Don't get a Benz unless you wanna be bored to sleep, get an Audi and call it a day, unless you wanan go pimpin', then I recommend a Caddy (Coupe De Vil for maximum ghettoness XD)

He's a salesman - he's been trained to lie.